Anything else can I do to up Iseult's chances of survival? Long post, sorry!

[casportpony]

There is some risk with the fenbendazole when they are this sick, so keep that in mind. The capillary dose is 50 mg/kg for five days.

1.24 x 50 / 100 = 0.62 ml

 

[HollyWoozle]

Thanks for your help.

 

[casportpony]

Thanks for your help.

You're welcome and good luck!

 

[HollyWoozle]

Day 31 of Iseult’s illness and we are still going. Maybe I should call it a day? She has ups and downs. It’s now 12 days since we finished her antibiotics and 4 days since she has been free of all meds - I gave her another week round of amprolium after more bloody mucus in droppings and 9th was the last day of that. She is living in my flat and I am dedicating hours each day to coaxing her to eat and making sure she is hydrated. I don’t resent the time at all but I wonder if keeping her alive is in her best interests anymore. A few days ago I coaxed her to take two small, wobbly steps but apart from that she hasn’t walked in all this time. She stands most of the day now and will preen herself but that’s it.

Her lowest weight was 1.19kg on 3rd Dec, having dropped from 1.34kg when I first started weighing her (she’d already been ill 11 days or so by then). I got it back up to 1.32kg and then it dropped to 1.29kg on 10th but I didn’t mind as her crop FINALLY cleared 100%. Her droppings were all solid and healthy looking overnight then too. I really tried hard to push just chicken food and some egg to reach that point.

Since then we have declined again, now at 1.27kg, more lethargic again and back to diarrhoea with a crop which doesn’t quite empty. Since our success on 10th she decided she doesn’t eat chicken food or eggs anymore, argh! She just wants to eat oats, seeds and rice and I am loathe to tube feed or syringe feed a chicken who will eat, but she will actively spit out what she doesn’t want and I know nutrition and clearing that crop are key. I wondered about a thiamine deficiency after all the Amprolium but I’ve been adding vitamins to the water since the treatment finished. She is not keen to take on grit either.

Today she did eventually swallow some of her actual food, not much but some, and ate some egg yolk when I presented it a different way. I did let her eat some oats and tried to get some coconut oil into her, as well as more formula containing glucose and protein for power. I think we did OK calorie-wise and in terms of hydration so I guess we’ll see tomorrow.

My family, friends and partner all think I am crazy but I don’t feel that I want to give up on her whilst she will eat and drink, but I assume there is something underlying here or surely she’d have gone one way or the other by now? Her feathers are growing in but SO SLOWLY. I really believe they started this whole thing - she came to us missing a lot of feathers in July and didn’t grow any to replace until a month or so ago and she became ill. I assume it depleted her protein stores.

 

[azygous]

You do have a dilemma. I don't know how many chickens you've had to try to nurse back to health, but I've had my share. The most difficult aspect is deciding when it's not in either of your best interests to keep on trying.

I've developed a sort of formula. Whether sick or injured, I give my all to the endeavor as long as the patient is showing some progress or has reached a point where she's able to survive on her own despite a chronic condition. That means she must be able to eat on her own, get around enough to hold her own in the flock, and most of all, demonstrate she's getting some benefit from being alive.

For example, I had a rescue hen I adopted after her flock was all killed by a predator. After being with the flock for several years, I noticed she was behaving withdrawn, sitting on a cushion all day. I looked her over, finding a huge, scabby abscess on her tail base. For the next couple weeks I debrided and cared for the wound and gave her an antibiotic. Nothing worked, and the wound refused to heal. Along with that, the other chickens were noticing this one was not feeling and acting well, and they began to pick on her. One day, unknown to me, she was hiding from the others on the other side of a wood pile where I was working. A accidentally knocked a log off and it fell on this poor girl's wounded tail, and the screeching that followed finally decided things. Life for this chicken was no longer to her benefit. Since I euthanized her, I've decided she likely had squamous cell cancer on her tail.

On the flip side, I have a ten-year old lame hen named Su-su who can get around, but with great difficulty. But Su-su has a full life and not only feeds herself but she took on the job of raising chicks which she is still currently doing. https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/we-know-broody-hens-how-about-a-nanny-hen.1407935/ I had tried to treat Su-su's lameness at one point, but nothing worked. But she seemed to always have a "purpose" and was able to hold her own in the flock. My oldest is twelve and blind, and she also holds her own, manages fine competing for food, and she never backs down when some youngster challenges her.

To sum it up, as long as a chicken can still live life as a chicken without more than a bare minimum of assistance from me, they are allowed to live their life, but when it's obvious that life is a struggle for them and for me, with no positive benefits for either of us, I end it.

 

[HollyWoozle]

This is really helpful, thank you @azygous. It’s a relief to be able to come on here and share what’s going on with other ‘chicken people’!

I’m going to change her setup a little in an attempt to make it a bit more natural to her and I guess just see what happens in the next few days. It’s hard to decide to let her go when you see her scoffing oats and touching up her feathers, but it’s not enough for quality of life.

 

[LaFleche]

If I read it right, she was better after de-worming, droppings looking good and even eating by herself?

Did you repeat the de-worming? Some worms require several treatments to get finally rid of them.

If the vet did not find coccidia, I would not treat with Corid again as this would deprive her of important vitamins she will need to recover.

As she is already ill for an entire month, I would assume she might be lacking Vitamin D3 which leads to lameness and weakness of the muscles as well as lack of calcium does.

So, as a last resort before you decide to end her misery, you could try another round of de-worming and Moro carrot soup and calcium+Vitamin D3+Vitamin K supplement.
And let her have some sand to help with the digestion. Sometimes they prefer sand to grit when not feeling well.

 

[HollyWoozle]

Thanks for your reply. She did have a second dose on fenbendazole which really took it out of her - I understand that actually she should've had it 5 days in a row (I planned for and went with 2 doses 5 days apart in the end). She was really very poorly for the day or two after the second dose and I am not confident to give her more as it was so hard on her. She was also treated with Ivermectin at the start of this as well.

Since the 10th she has had a vitamin and mineral supplement in her water (and I work hard to keep her drinking plenty of it) and additional boost of calcium and vit D3. It is just so frustrating... she would eat plain, dry oats or rice or seeds all day long if I let her but is determined not to have anything else, really odd, whereas she was eating really well again up until four days or so ago. I think she will eat rice mixed into raw egg so I will try that again. I know this is not balanced or adequate nutrition but I feel like eating something is better than nothing at this point. I am giving her a protein concentrate in her vitamin water several times a day as well.

I collected some sand for her this morning as I read your post before I went out. She won't go for it yet but I've put it beside her (with grit as well). I appreciate the suggestion.

 

[HollyWoozle]

The mystery of Iseult continues! She is better than my last post but we seem to be stuck in a rut. She is back to gaining weight and now at 1.38kg - her lowest was 1.19kg and she was 1.34kg when I first weighed her. Her feathers continue to grow, albeit very, very slowly. She eats, drinks, poos and doesn't do much else. Spends most of her time lying down with her eyes shut, but if she hears a bag crinkle like you might have tasty snacks for her then PING her eyes open and she is on the case. She will stand but not walk. She is still fussy about food but she does now eat at least some of her normal feed everyday then I try to fill her on the most nutritious options possible, focusing on protein (I always try chicken feed first).

Her droppings are mostly solid now, with the odd blip, but her urates are yellow. She does have distinct cecal poos. I start to wonder if this is histomoniasis? Gail Damerow's book says it usually subsides by 28 days after incubation (7 - 12 days) and is worst around 17 days. If I work on the maximum incubation period, assuming she was already looking poorly with worms before infection with this, then that would fit with her taking a real downward turn 10 days or so ago. It would also mean that she should really be getting over it by tomorrow though!

She has been separate from her flock since 13th November and I should really get on and make a decision, but whilst she gains weight it is so hard to let go. She preened a bit this morning and I made her a sort of box/sling situation just to get her more confident standing again which seems to be working well. I don't believe she is in pain but equally I know she must be uncomfortable and unhappy or she'd be acting normally! She has no fluid or swelling on the belly and no discharge from her vent. Her crop is definitely a bit gassy and doesn't empty fully, leaving a bit around the size of a peach stone each morning, but no sour smell and food is obviously getting through her. When she stands it is not a normal stance but I think because she is just wobbly, it's not 'penguiny'.

This cannot be her life forever and I know that, my full aim is and always was to get her well enough to return to the flock, but I can't help but hope that might still be possible.

Here she is last night: https://streamable.com/o8z2ii

She doesn't get much of that treat type food but I do give her a little from time to time to gauge her reaction mostly!

 

[HollyWoozle]

My little Iseult died early yesterday morning. On 27th I felt that she was running out of power, although she did still eat a bit even that evening, then I heard her move oddly early the next morning. I got up and sat with her and within half an hour she had died.

It was a peaceful end and I don’t regret my efforts to save her, but I am sorry that I wasn’t successful. I had said that I would do a necropsy but after nursing her several times a day for over 6 weeks, I couldn’t bring myself to cut her up. The rest of the flock are all in good health and I don’t believe her problems will affect them.

She inspired many of my friends and family to think more carefully about the products they use which contain eggs and where the eggs come from, since Iseult was an ex-commercial layer from a caged system.

Bye bye little lady, you taught me a lot and I hope that I didn’t prolong your suffering.