Apple Cider Vinegar and Aluminium. Why it doesn't mix?

[aoxa]

I've heard it time and time again. No metal or Aluminium containers if using ACV in the water. IT leaches toxins.

How much would it leach? How would it be dangerous to your birds?

I've also heard it leaches plastic too, but not nearly as often.

 

[sumi]

I've looked for an answer to this myself. I've looked at quite a few sites and the answers I got were:

-it corrodes the metal
-reacts to the metal
-makes the vinegar go off
-poisons the chickens.

One or two sites did say it can be used safely in stainless steel containers though...

O.K. found a bit more info: Vinegar is mostly acetic acid, which, when in contact with "soft" metal for long periods form hydrogen gas and acetates.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

The acetic acid in all vinegars is corrosive to metals like magnisium, iron and zinc. The aluminium is not actually the problem. Aluminium is generally used to contain strong acetic acids because aluminmun will passivate and form a acid resitant film and not corrod. SO, a pure aluminium feeder would actually be fine.

But, most chicken feeders are made of GALVANIZED aluminium which means they are coated with a layer of zinc which is corrosive when exposed to vinegar. So the vinegar will eat away at the metal and the chemical reaction will cause hydrogen gas. Bad news.

The galvanization prevents rusting and some steel is also galvanized so if people are saying is ok it is likely regular steel and not galvanized steel as the would have the same reaction with the zinc. I am not certain about the chemical make up of stainless.

edited: I was curious so I looked it up and it looks like you can passivate stainless steel.

 

[sumi]

Here's more on acid and chickens:

http://www.ziggity.com/pdf/cont/con..._acids_in_poultry_production_with_caution.pdf

 

[Sally Sunshine]

Here's more on acid and chickens:

http://www.ziggity.com/pdf/cont/con..._acids_in_poultry_production_with_caution.pdf

Good and scary read!

 

[aoxa]

The acetic acid in all vinegars is corrosive to metals like magnisium, iron and zinc. The aluminium is not actually the problem. Aluminium is generally used to contain strong acetic acids because aluminmun will passivate and form a acid resitant film and not corrod. SO, a pure aluminium feeder would actually be fine.

But, most chicken feeders are made of GALVANIZED aluminium which means they are coated with a layer of zinc which is corrosive when exposed to vinegar. So the vinegar will eat away at the metal and the chemical reaction will cause hydrogen gas. Bad news.

The galvanization prevents rusting and some steel is also galvanized so if people are saying is ok it is likely regular steel and not galvanized steel as the would have the same reaction with the zinc. I am not certain about the chemical make up of stainless.

edited: I was curious so I looked it up and it looks like you can passivate stainless steel.

I am looking at making a trough out of an aluminium gutter.

PEAK's H2GO rainwear system offers quality that you can see and feel. The H2GO components are safe, durable and attractive. Gutters are manufactured of thick, high quality aluminum - a strong, durable and maintenance-free material which is ideal for the exterior of the home.

Heavy gauge aluminum increases strength and durability
Inside lip provides greater holding power for gutter hanger
No connectors required between 10' gutters sections to create a smooth look.

Kind of like Beekissed's feeder, but bigger.

 

[aoxa]

I've looked for an answer to this myself. I've looked at quite a few sites and the answers I got were:

-it corrodes the metal
-reacts to the metal
-makes the vinegar go off
-poisons the chickens.



One or two sites did say it can be used safely in stainless steel containers though...

O.K. found a bit more info: Vinegar is mostly acetic acid, which, when in contact with "soft" metal for long periods form hydrogen gas and acetates.

Thanks for the details Sumi!

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Here is more info about the pure aluminium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid#Chemical_reactions

 

[aoxa]

Here is more info about the pure aluminium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acetic_acid#Chemical_reactions

This part is the most helpful:

Reactions with inorganic compounds
Acetic acid is mildly corrosive to metals including iron, magnesium, and zinc, forming hydrogen gas and salts called acetates:
Mg + 2 CH3COOH → (CH3COO)2Mg + H2
Because aluminium forms a passivating acid-resistant film of aluminium oxide, aluminium tanks are used to transport acetic acid. Metal acetates can also be prepared from acetic acid and an appropriate base, as in the popular "baking soda + vinegar" reaction:
NaHCO3 + CH3COOH → CH3COONa + CO2 + H2O
A colour reaction for salts of acetic acid is iron(III) chloride solution, which results in a deeply red colour that disappears after acidification. Acetates when heated with arsenic trioxide form cacodyl oxide, which can be detected by its malodorous vapours.

 

[sumi]

Thanks for the details Sumi!

You're welcome. I didn't copy the actual text as I believe it is it's copyrighted.