are pain relievers ending in -caine toxic to chickens/birds? looking for solid proof either way.

[Araucana Nest]

Researching this after using topical lidocaine 4% on my nine-week old Araucana pullet that had her entire neck stripped of skin in a dog attack. I was trying to use aspirin in water but the first couple of days, she would barely drink and wouldn’t eat. I posted in the emergency forum and thought to take the water to her and she drank a lot but didn’t seem to help. Anyway, on the third day I remembered I have an emergency burn gel that has been very helpful and has given immediate relief for burns. It has aloe. I applied it to her entire neck area twice the first day. Didn’t dose it - just covered the area until it was all slick. There was immediate observable improvement. She started eating that day and the expression in her eyes was noticeably relieved. She was more here than there so to speak. I applied it once the next day and again yesterday morning. There have been no observable negative side effects and I do credit the gel with easing her level of pain so she can eat and drink. She is more vocal and is taking meal worms out of my hands. This morning she was moving around and eating before I turned the lights on. She is inside the house with a 100 watt heat lamp she can move away from. I believe lidocaine made a big difference for her and wanted to say that. Pain can make the difference between wanting to live and wanting to die. One pullet and one experience isn’t a anything like a conclusion and I don’t mean that everyone should use it. I did because I didn’t know it could be toxic.

 

[Isaac 0]

Researching this after using topical lidocaine 4% on my nine-week old Araucana pullet that had her entire neck stripped of skin in a dog attack. I was trying to use aspirin in water but the first couple of days, she would barely drink and wouldn’t eat. I posted in the emergency forum and thought to take the water to her and she drank a lot but didn’t seem to help. Anyway, on the third day I remembered I have an emergency burn gel that has been very helpful and has given immediate relief for burns. It has aloe. I applied it to her entire neck area twice the first day. Didn’t dose it - just covered the area until it was all slick. There was immediate observable improvement. She started eating that day and the expression in her eyes was noticeably relieved. She was more here than there so to speak. I applied it once the next day and again yesterday morning. There have been no observable negative side effects and I do credit the gel with easing her level of pain so she can eat and drink. She is more vocal and is taking meal worms out of my hands. This morning she was moving around and eating before I turned the lights on. She is inside the house with a 100 watt heat lamp she can move away from. I believe lidocaine made a big difference for her and wanted to say that. Pain can make the difference between wanting to live and wanting to die. One pullet and one experience isn’t a anything like a conclusion and I don’t mean that everyone should use it. I did because I didn’t know it could be toxic.View attachment 2461835

Thanks for sharing your experience. Just in regards to the aspirin, even though some folks recommend it for wounds; it's best not to since it thins the blood, and can cause hemorrhaging of the wound site. Studies show in humans that it slows wound healing time as well.

Here is a lidocaine study done on some chickens in Iran, but the lidocaine was given IV. Anecdotally, I've used pain-relief Neosporin on some of my birds with no problems.

http://www.ivsajournals.com/article_3628_f14489575e73d63501ee820381ad1119.pdf

 

[Araucana Nest]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Just in regards to the aspirin, even though some folks recommend it for wounds; it's best not to since it thins the blood, and can cause hemorrhaging of the wound site. Studies show in humans that it slows wound healing time as well.

Here is a lidocaine study done on some chickens in Iran, but the lidocaine was given IV.

http://www.ivsajournals.com/article_3628_f14489575e73d63501ee820381ad1119.pdf

Thank you for the link. There is a lot of misleading information on lidocaine for chickens. I'm glad I hadn't read any of it and was able to offer my pullet some relief. And thank you for the aspirin suggestion. I use Bayer for myself and prefer it to any of the other otc nsaids. She didn't have any bleeding, it was all superficial but it's good to be reminded because all I was thinking of was giving her pain relief.

 

[casportpony]

There is a post about lidocaine and poultry written by a vet, let me see if I can find it. She basically says it's okay to use products that have "caine" in them.

 

[bgmathteach]

Procaine toxicity is a risk with any animal, but more so with birds. I've read that many vets do not recommend procaine penicillin in poultry because of this. If you look in Plumb's Veterinary Drug Handbook the only bird listed is turkey and it says to use with caution in smaller birds.

I've used the eye drops with "caine" (can't remember name) in birds and the Quick Stop powder *has* benzocaine in it an is labeled for use in birds.

No offense to anyone, especially those that lost birds after using caine, but I would really like to see a properly documented study on the subject.

-Kathy

This study deals specifically with Lidocaine intravienously and birds:
Lidocaine toxicity in birds

This is an Veterinain overview of pain meds for birds,and mentions lidocaine as an okay topical, but at a reduced concentration of 1:10:
Avian Pain and Analgesia, By Dr. Hawkins

 

[ncserhati]

It's the "caine" pain killer that's bad for chickens. The one in penicillin does not harm them. I've given penicillin with procaine many times over the last 5 years with no bad effects at all. With any kind of lotion or powder, I think I would pass on them.

You may want to search for member "SpeckledHen" and "caine", she's written things about it.

I just used penicillin g and it instantly killed my chicken. I gave it IM into the right breast and almost instantly, she started fighting and squawking. I put her in her cage and she just started flopping about and died. Have you never experienced this? What could I have done wrong?

 

[casportpony]

I just used penicillin g and it instantly killed my chicken. I gave it IM into the right breast and almost instantly, she started fighting and squawking. I put her in her cage and she just started flopping about and died. Have you never experienced this? What could I have done wrong?

Sorry for your loss. Did you draw back on the syringe to check for blood?

 

[ncserhati]

Sorry for your loss. Did you draw back on the syringe to check for blood?

Yes, I did. There was no sign of any, nor did I get air. It went in very nicely too.

 

[Mixed flock enthusiast]

I just used penicillin g and it instantly killed my chicken. I gave it IM into the right breast and almost instantly, she started fighting and squawking. I put her in her cage and she just started flopping about and died. Have you never experienced this? What could I have done wrong?

Oh that sounds awful! A sudden reaction to an injectable drug could be from severe allergy (anaphylaxis) to either procaine or penicillin, with penicillin being more likely, or from procaine getting into a blood vessel. That’s very unfortunately and I’m sorry about your hen!

 

[ncserhati]

Oh that sounds awful! A sudden reaction to an injectable drug could be from severe allergy (anaphylaxis) to either procaine or penicillin, with penicillin being more likely, or from procaine getting into a blood vessel. That’s very unfortunately and I’m sorry about your hen!

Thank you for your sympathy. I am very devastated and angry about it. I was trying so hard to save her, but maybe that is my problem, that I try too hard. I was afraid she had aspirated and wanted to start antibiotics right away to keep pneumonia out of the question as she was fighting coccidia already. And I ended her life instantly. I also did so much research to try and ensure it was safe and everything I read said it was fine. I even went on a lower dose just in case.