Are Satins Really Silkies?

[MysteryChicken]

Satins are missing one of the jost important characteristics. Why? Because they are a mix of a cochin and a silkie. And in every other breed, a mix is a mix, not the breed.

So with your logic, I could call my Buff Orpington × Buckeye mix a Buff Orpington because the only thing different is the comb, other than that their traits are 100% the same. Will even lay the same egg color and size.

The thing that defines a silkie and is their namesake is their silkied feathers. You cannot just take that from them and think they are still silkies.

People call other mix breeds that have silkied feathers things like "Silkied Seramas" because they have silkie feathers. They are not silkies or seramas, but the reason they are called that is because they have silkied feathers.

Clearly you don't understand, so I'll leave you be now.

American Silkie Bantams are mixed with Bantam Cochin By the way.

 

[GlicksChicks]

I don’t think you’re understanding. This is not some first generation cross. This has nothing to do with a orpingtonxbuckeye first generation cross. No one would call that a purebred Orpington. The satins I am referring to are silkies in every regard except for the satin feathers that were bred in MANY generations ago. Im saying if you plucked a silkie and a satin silkie they would look completely indistinguishable from each other. If you think that any bird that had a cross bred into them very far back down the line isn’t a purebred bird, then you can’t call any bird a purebred. They must all be BYM.

Having a satin that carries one silkie feather gene allows it to throw babies with the two different kinds of feathers. That doesn’t make it a BYM.

If you think that the satins are BYM and you want pure silkies, you should make sure that you never purchase silkie chicks from a breeder that has satins. Or you might end up with a silkie that had a satin feather parent. And you wouldn’t be able to consider that chick a purebred since it had a satin parent. Or grandparent. Many (probably most) silkie breeders own at least some satins so it will severely narrow your options and your gene pool.

Like in dogs, there are some breeds that come in multiple coat types yet they are the same breed and they are interbred and not considered to be separate breeds. You can get both hair types in the same litter. Obviously a very long way back, the other hair gene was bred into that breed using a dog that wasn’t the same breed. But the puppies born now are considered purebred and can be shown. This is a very similar concept.

Chickens are not like dogs. Take a satin to a silkie show. It wouldn't go well for the bird's ranking.

 

[GlicksChicks]

Honestly I don’t mind if everyone disagrees with me on this. I simply don’t really appreciate being told that I am breeding BYM and trying to pass them off as purebreds, so if I sounded contentious that is why. I am very upfront with my buyers on possible feather types. And very upfront about any mixed breeds. I feel like I haven’t done anything wrong with my chickens or my buyers, and have never received a complaint from anyone (And btw I am in no way a large scale breeder. I sold maybe 30 chicks last year.)

If someone wants to make satin silkies their own breed, I’d be fine with that and happy to see it happen! But I truly think that a lot of breeders and buyers enjoy the different varieties found in silkies. I know I do!

I’ll bow out of this conversation now as I said my opinion and don’t have much more to add at this point

I am happy you let buyers know about what you have in your pen. The main ones who bother me are the ones who say nothing about the possibility of smooth feathers.

 

[BigBlueHen53]

Common sense is as common sense does - you belong.

thank you, Sour.

 

[Chocolate Silkie Queen]

This is my Chocolate Mottled Satin Silkie. The first cross is NOT a satin it takes several generations to get to the Satin Silkie that people are wanting. Yes he looks like he has normal feathers but here is the kicker they’re MUCH softer than my normal feathered chickens!! That’s the goal is to have the silkie feel with normal feathering. Now I do have silkie mixed chicks with normal feathering. Would I sell them as Satin Silkies? No!!!! At this point it is a mix. Now if I was to breed them together keep the ones with normal feathers that’s softer then breed back to a silkie for the silkie feel and normal feathering that would make it around f3 generation and be closer to the satin but still not fully there depending on the looks and feather texture. The issue with satins are people are doing the first generation cross and calling it good that’s where they get in trouble and at that point you can get just about anything with that cross.

 

[AusHen]

It's very doubtful any organization will ever accept Satins as a variety of Silkies, given they lack the key feature that makes a Silkie, well a Silkie. They are likely to be stuck in the Silkie project limbo for the foreseeable future.

 

[Chocolate Silkie Queen]

I’m sure if enough people push it they most definitely will! It’s not just the feathering that makes a silkie a silkie or else they wouldn’t really have much of a SOP for them!