are you using a non-medicated starter?

[Tala]

I feed non-medicated Purina Flock Raiser, and I put chicks outside on the grass/ground ASAP. I've brought TINY chicks home from TSC and put them right outside (sheltered with a lamp of course). The absolute longest I've kept chicks inside was about 2.5ish maybe leaning towards 3 weeks old and I swore NEVER to do it again due to the excess dust!
I have had more issues with injuries of late, and I've never had a preventable illnesses.

 

[Supermommy486]

Well crap. I WAS wanting to raise organic chickens but I got medicated feed... How bad would I be if I switched to regular after this bag is done?

 

[PunkinPeep]

Quote:
Well, if you're talking about "certified" organic, i think the regulations are pretty crazy stringent - but for your own use and keeping them natural, you will be fine to switch on the next bag - just keep them exposed to the soil....in my opinion.

The medication will leave their systems long before you start eating their eggs.

 

[Supermommy486]

Quote:
Well, if you're talking about "certified" organic, i think the regulations are pretty crazy stringent - but for your own use and keeping them natural, you will be fine to switch on the next bag - just keep them exposed to the soil....in my opinion.

The medication will leave their systems long before you start eating their eggs.

Yea definitely just for our own use. And thanks, that makes me feel a little bit better. Next bag I will switch. Thanks so much!

 

[Break an Egg]

I am feeding medicated, not by choice though.

I went to a new feedstore a few weeks ago to get some BO's because I've always wanted them and my usual feedstore never has them. Along with the babies I asked for a bag of starter, I didn't say medicated, but I didn't say non, so I got stuck with the medicated. I am only going to be using this one 25lb bag and then regularly buy the non medicated from my feedstore. Actually I was there today and they told me they don't even carry the medicated version, they do however have the meds I guess if you want to add it to their food.

 

[PunkinPeep]

You're welcome!

 

[ajablu]

I was really glad to see this post. It confirms what I had been seeing also. I have always used medicated food and had the same thing happen. The only times I didn't have chicks get cocci was when the chicks were raised by a hen . I always thought they would be the ones I could lose. They ate whatever the hen ate, I didnt put chick food out for them. They were outside with her in chilly weather and not in a nice warm brooder. It would be cold and kind of drizzling and I would see them following mom around outside. To my amazement they were the ones who lived and didn't get sick. This year I tried something new with the new chicks we got. I fed them unmedicated feed and put them out sooner than I usually do. This was my first group not raised by a hen that had no cocci. They have been strong and healthy with no cocci and have been out a while. I did put a heat lamp in their coop though for really cold nights and a few days when it snowed. I also live in an area where coccidiosis is bad. I plan to use the unmedicated starter for the next batch and see how things go. Sometimes I think that by using too many things we make them weaker by not giving them a chance to develop natural immunity. When I first let broody hens hatch and raise their chicks I figured they would die when the weather was cold in the spring or cold and wet. I worried because they were eating the same things the hen did. Then I realized this was how my Grandparents raised chicks. They didn't have medicated feeds or even buy commercially made feed and the hen raised them. They didn't bring them in to put in a nice warm brooder and keep everything really sterile. They had a beautiful flock of very healthy birds.
Of course I still will raise my chicks that are hatched in an incubator or bought as babies the way I usually do, but I won't use the medicated feeds and will try using some dirt from outside in the brooder. I do keep medication on hand in case it is needed but I am hoping the next batch will be as strong and healthy as the first raised without medicated feed. I am experimenting with this to see what works best for me.

 

[PunkinPeep]

Quote:
Thank you so much for posting this! Our experiences are very similar, and i haven't seen very much of this kind of talk around here. Now i know there's someone out there who thinks a little bit like me.

 

[Beekissed]

Let's talk about Amprolium.

Advocates of medicated feeds say that Amprolium is not an antibiotic and my searches have proven this to be true. It is, however, a thiamine inhibitor. Thiamine is very important in our diets and I can imagine in a chicken's diet as well.

Thiamine is synthesized in bacteria, fungi and plants. Animals must cover all their needs from their food and insufficient intake results in a disease called beriberi affecting the peripheral nervous system (polyneuritis) and/or the cardiovascular system, with fatal outcome if not cured by thiamine administration.[1] In less severe deficiency, nonspecific signs include malaise, weight loss, irritability and confusion.[2] Today, there is still a lot of work devoted to elucidating the exact mechanisms by which thiamine deficiency leads to the specific symptoms observed .

Mature chickens show signs 3 weeks after being fed a deficient diet. In young chicks, it can appear before 2 weeks of age.

Onset is sudden in young chicks. There is anorexia and an unsteady gait. Later on, there are locomotor signs, beginning with an apparent paralysis of the flexor of the toes. The characteristic position is called "stargazing", meaning a chick "sitting on its hocks and the head in opisthotonos.

Thiamine derivatives and thiamine-dependent enzymes are present in all cells of the body, thus, a thiamine deficiency would seem to adversely affect all of the organ systems. However, the nervous system and the heart are particularly sensitive to thiamine deficiency, because of their high oxidative metabolism.

Thiamine deficiency can lead to severe fatigue of eyes and myriad problems including neurodegeneration, wasting and death. A lack of thiamine can be caused by malnutrition, a diet high in thiaminase-rich foods (raw freshwater fish, raw shellfish, ferns) and/or foods high in anti-thiamine factors (tea, coffee, betel nuts)[29] and by grossly impaired nutritional status associated with chronic diseases, such as alcoholism, gastrointestinal diseases, HIV-AIDS, and persistent vomiting.[30] It is thought that many people with diabetes have a deficiency of thiamine and that this may be linked to some of the complications that can occur.[31][32]

Now, before we get bogged down in the amounts needed to cause a thiamine deficiency in animals and in humans, let's consider this~imagine all the commercially raised chickens, cows and dairy producers that are fed this thiamine inhibitor in their daily feed rations to prevent coccidiosis. Humans are eating these meats and getting the collective hormones, nutrients or lack thereof and medicines that are present in the meat and nerve tissue and organs. Especially in the organs.

They say that these animals are no longer fed antibiotics....but they ARE fed Amprolium and certain soy proteins that enhance hormone secretions. These ingredients are passed on to the consumer...there has been enough research to support this and it all lists the health problems that result.

Now, I'm no alarmist, nor do I eat commercial meats, eggs or dairy, so I'm not worried at all about my own health here....but I am a little weary of people getting up on the high horse and insisting that medicated feeds do not contain antibiotics!!! like that makes a difference and should set one's mind at ease....it doesn't. It says medicated because there are medications in it. Meds, medicines, vitamin inhibitors, hormone enhancers...any way you slice it, it's not something you necessarily want added to your diet in this quiet little way.​

 

[nancypo]

Mine have been super healthy so far and growing like weeds! I do clean the enclosure every day, scrub the water trough and keep the feed clean. So far so good, and I never use tap water, only filtered from my under counter water filter....