ARGH!!!! More sick chickens! Marek's again or something else?

[Leihamarie]

@froggiesheins , can you clarify for me when the vertical transmissions that you've seen happen, are fertile eggs from a Marek's carrying flock removed and hatched out in an incubator in a clean room that is not touched by anyone other than persons who have sterilized themselves thoroughly???

If not, that's probably how it's happening. Even if it were transfered as @BantamLover21 suggested, there seems to be a modicum of immunity for the first 2 weeks of life.

Marek's (as I'm sure you know) is extremely pervasive and chicks that are hatched out in a Marek's flock under a hen are as likely to succumb to the virus as any non-vaccinated chick. As far as the HVT vaccine is concerned, the chick needs to be kept away from ALL points of contact with the virus for at least 12-16 weeks after hatch. It's best to vaccinate them in-ovo or as a day-old and it's advantageous to vaccinate again at 2 weeks since that is when inherited immunity from the mother seems to dissipate. Basically, if a vaccinated chick is exposed to the virus from anywhere at ANY point in the first 12-16 weeks of life it's unlikely that the HVT vaccine will be effective. Chicks need to be brooded away from the flock in a sterile environment and even then, an open window could blow virus laden dander in. I can see how this would appear to be a vertical transmission though!

In the cases that you've seen, how were the eggs hatched and the chicks raised?

 

[froggiesheins]

@froggiesheins
, can you clarify for me when the vertical transmissions that you've seen happen, are fertile eggs from a Marek's carrying flock removed and hatched out in an incubator in a clean room that is not touched by anyone other than persons who have sterilized themselves thoroughly???

If not, that's probably how it's happening. Even if it were transfered as @BantamLover21
suggested, there seems to be a modicum of immunity for the first 2 weeks of life.

Marek's (as I'm sure you know) is extremely pervasive and chicks that are hatched out in a Marek's flock under a hen are as likely to succumb to the virus as any non-vaccinated chick. As far as the HVT vaccine is concerned, the chick needs to be kept away from ALL points of contact with the virus for at least 12-16 weeks after hatch. It's best to vaccinate them in-ovo or as a day-old and it's advantageous to vaccinate again at 2 weeks since that is when inherited immunity from the mother seems to dissipate. Basically, if a vaccinated chick is exposed to the virus from anywhere at ANY point in the first 12-16 weeks of life it's unlikely that the HVT vaccine will be effective. Chicks need to be brooded away from the flock in a sterile environment and even then, an open window could blow virus laden dander in. I can see how this would appear to be a vertical transmission though!

In the cases that you've seen, how were the eggs hatched and the chicks raised?

In all honesty, I do not feel like posting every necropsy report for birds that have had Mareks that have come thru my "hospital".
All I can say is: if the hen hatches 5 eggs and one comes down with Mareks its a pretty sure bet the other 4 will. AND lets say there were eggs from another hen all living together at the same time.. those chickes won't get it.
Also a bird can harbor the virus and it comes out later in life for a trauma or stress.
AND sometimes a breeder or Backyard flock has it in their ground and can cause possible mareks to pop up randomly
It IS a very very fickle disease.

 

[Leihamarie]

In all honesty, I do not feel like posting every necropsy report for birds that have had Mareks that have come thru my "hospital".
All I can say is: if the hen hatches 5 eggs and one comes down with Mareks its a pretty sure bet the other 4 will. AND lets say there were eggs from another hen all living together at the same time.. those chickes won't get it.
Also a bird can harbor the virus and it comes out later in life for a trauma or stress.

AND sometimes a breeder or Backyard flock has it in their ground and can cause possible mareks to pop up randomly
It IS a very very fickle disease.

Ha! Don't I know it, lol! Marek's is horrid. It is extremely opportunistic and I wish it weren't so prevalent in arid climates like ours! The experiences you're describing are really interesting! I've made quite a study of Marek's since it hit my flock last year. The vet that I took my original birds to said "oh, yeah... it's just assumed in this area that if you have backyard chickens, you have Marek's"

Well, howd'ya like that?!

Thanks for posting your experiences!

 

[froggiesheins]

Ha! Don't I know it, lol! Marek's is horrid. It is extremely opportunistic and I wish it weren't so prevalent in arid climates like ours! The experiences you're describing are really interesting! I've made quite a study of Marek's since it hit my flock last year. The vet that I took my original birds to said "oh, yeah... it's just assumed in this area that if you have backyard chickens, you have Marek's"

Well, howd'ya like that?!

Thanks for posting your experiences!

I have noticed this: Seramas and Game birds "appear to" be rather immune to Mareks..strange huh? Lest thats my experience so far

 

[Leihamarie]

I have noticed this: Seramas and Game birds "appear to" be rather immune to Mareks..strange huh? Lest thats my experience so far

yeah, and in contrast, I read somewhere that Silkies, Bantams and hybrids tend to be more susceptible. I can't remember though where I read that. I did come across this paper that was just published a few months back on Marek's in regards to immunology. Apparently there's a genetic marker in line 63 chickens that is resistant to Marek's. It's a pretty interesting read!

https://veterinaryresearch.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13567-016-0404-3

Someday when you have the time and inclination, I would REALLY love to deconstruct the vertical experiences you have seen! I'm researching Veterinary homeopathy (like... seriously considering going back school for 4+ years to become a practitioner) and the more I learn and research the results of proper diagnosis, the more I'm convinced there's an answer for backyard poultry in VH. I'm looking into nosodes right now (homeopathic sort of inoculation) which have mixed results in clinical studies but there are vets that use them exclusively for rabies, parvo, etc... in small animal practices.

(edited to add content)

 

[Leihamarie]

It just occurred to me that I didn't post an update to identify what's actually going on in my flock. I'm reasonably certain that the symptoms I originally posted about are a result of Mycotoxicosis. There was moldy straw involved. That's not to say that Marek's wont take advantage of the situation and weasel its way in while their immune systems are compromised. Just say no to moldy anything when it comes to chickens, lol!!!

Currently I have all 4 chickens in my bedroom (yeah... SUPER fun, lol) in supportive care mode, giving them homeopathic remedies, 5mg/kg of curcumin with bioperine which has been shown to offset effects of mycotoxins, along with hefty doses of pre & pro-biotics which has also been shown to offset mycotoxin effects. The limping and wing paralysis went away quickly but there are neurological and respiratory symptoms that persist in 3 of my girls. The one that had Coccidiosis still has diarrhea but now it's only while she's awake. They're all still breathing though, they're eating like true chooks and I'm continuing to fight for them having a good outcome. :-D

Thanks everyone for your support and responses!!!