Arizona Chickens

[DesertChic]

You got that right about the soil here. It's low in organic matter, heavy on the clay composition, and highly alkaline. On the bright side it's high in minerals. It took me a good 1-2 years of growing cover crops to get the tilth about right and now it's pretty good. The chicken manure compost certainly helps with the NPK. If you decide to do any gardening you'll hear a lot of people talk about raised beds, but raised beds are good for places where the soil doesn't dry out in time for spring planting, like back east. Out here any plants in a raised bed will require 3x the water to keep them moist. I think the reason people use raised beds out here is because they don't want to work the soil to make it decent. Not saying there's anything wrong with that philosophy since different people have different amounts of time to dedicate to gardening here, but I hate hearing how raised beds are better in the valley because the soil is so poor which ain't necessarily the case - just takes some upfront work to get it going and maintain it but it's no different than difficult soils in any other part of the country. If anything it'd be better to make a depressed bed to retain moisture. Above all, feed the soil to bring the pH down to as close to neutral as possible - that's probably one of the main things. Also I always recommend growing crops that tolerate alkaline soil, such as corn, beans, etc. Sorry for going off on a tangent but I love growing vegetables.

Gosh I hear ya. I'm in the same boat. I have garlic and onions going that I planted last fall but I haven't put anything in since. Just been too busy messing with the chickens. I'm hoping to get crops in for the fall too. I'll keep my fingers crossed. This breeding chickens stuff is just too much fun though.

I have to admit, I love my raised beds. You know from previous discussions we've had that I'm a terrible gardener by nature, and since my home was built on what used to be a rock quarry, "soil" is practically an endangered species on my property. Having the raised beds allowed me to learn about which plants can thrive out here and when while working to improve the ground soil on my property. I dug what was supposed to be a small hole to plant some rosemary. Because of the massive rocks, some weighing as much as 20 lbs, my "small" hole had to be over three feet across and just as deep, worked for an entire day to improve drainage, and then filled in with mostly compost...all for a pot that wasn't even a foot deep.

How do you control the nutgrass that's so prevalent around here? Even solarizing doesn't kill that stuff and it grows feelers that are feet long. Now that I've improved some of the ground soil, I'm challenged by this native grass.

 

[igorsMistress]

I have to admit, I love my raised beds. You know from previous discussions we've had that I'm a terrible gardener by nature, and since my home was built on what used to be a rock quarry, "soil" is practically an endangered species on my property. Having the raised beds allowed me to learn about which plants can thrive out here and when while working to improve the ground soil on my property. I dug what was supposed to be a small hole to plant some rosemary. Because of the massive rocks, some weighing as much as 20 lbs, my "small" hole had to be over three feet across and just as deep, worked for an entire day to improve drainage, and then filled in with mostly compost...all for a pot that wasn't even a foot deep. 

How do you control the nutgrass that's so prevalent around here? Even solarizing doesn't kill that stuff and it grows feelers that are feet long. Now that I've improved some of the ground soil, I'm challenged by this native grass. :/

It's the worst stuff! I have lived in my house 7 years and I am still fighting this battle.
The digging of holes three times bigger than necessary is why we haven't made better progress in all those years.
I am convinced if the hat doesn't kill ya trying to garden here just might.
Hence the "need" for chickens!

 

[cactusrota]

How do you control the nutgrass that's so prevalent around here? Even solarizing doesn't kill that stuff and it grows feelers that are feet long. Now that I've improved some of the ground soil, I'm challenged by this native grass.

That sounds like the same stuff I have. I've been calling it crabgrass because it has the same seed heads. It reaches out 6-8 feet in any direction and puts rhisomes out a foot under ground in every direction, too. The chickens love it, but they can't get it all. My husband wants to soak the ground with poisons, and I won't let him. I have collected it when it's green and made hay, it's good for that at least.

 

[ejcrist]

Please tell us more, because I wanna put several beds (using 2x12) all around my run and am debating whether to put that black sheeting (whatever you call it) in there and just filling them with dirt from an outside source. That sheeting will keeps pre-existing weed seeds from sprouting.--BB

Bobby Basham
Tucson, Arizona

That'll work but it's only good for an extremely small garden and not cost effective here in the valley IMO. Back East it works better if you only want a small plot since the only real cost is the lumber or blocks to build the raised beds; the soil you just get from other parts of the yard. The idea is to raise the soil so it drains better and dries out in time to plant stuff in the spring since they get a lot of rain back there in the early part of the year. Out here the cost to build is the lumber/blocks and the soil, and then the cost of keeping it irrigated (with city water in most people's cases). You'll need a lot of irrigation since it'll be a real battle trying to maintain moist soil in this environment. So when you think about what you'll get out of it it's probably not worth the cost of the inputs.

I have a fairly large garden and I'm on a well so my situation is slightly different but the principles are the same. You should concentrate on building your soil and, assuming yours is like most in the valley, lowering the pH and salt content of your soil (we have a good amount of sodic (salty) soils here due to evaporation of moisture in the soil leaving only minerals). Personally I recommend either planting directly in the soil or if dealing with a small area making depressions and planting there. Most soils here have a high clay content so they'll hold moisture pretty well. You're soil is likely low in organic matter so you'll want to add a lot of that. One cheap source is the bags of composted steer manure available at Homeless Depot for around $1.00 per bag - add a lot and mix with your native soil. Make sure you mix it down as deep as you reasonably can so your vegetables don't encounter the compacted clay that is so common around here - it's hard as cement and difficult to dig but once you've opened it up and amended the soil it doesn't take much to keep it up to par. During the year never let any part of your garden be bare - always have something growing and incorporate any leftover plant residue back into the ground. That doesn't mean you have to always have food crops growing because some parts of the year are pretty inhospitable to a lot of food crops, but there are what's called cover crops/green manures that you can grow such as buckwheat, sudan grass, millet, etc. during the summer, and field peas, yellow clover, alfalfa, etc. during the cooler months. Different cover crops have different characteristics depending on what your soil needs. Some add tremendous amounts of biomass to help with tilth, others have very deep taproots that will improve drainage, and still others such as legumes (clovers, beans, peas) fix nitrogen from the air on their roots so you don't have to add any fertilizer. You can mix and match cover crops too but the reason to grow them is to improve your soil while you're not growing food crops. I've never added synthetic fertilizers to any of my vegetable gardens here or back east - the cover crops take care of all the requirements. Since you'll have chicken manure too, adding that into the mix will guarantee you'll have way more than enough nutrients for your future garden.

This is just the Cliff Notes version of what you can do in general; there's a lot more information available from various sources if you want to learn more. One place you can start is the U of A Agricultural Extension - lots of info available there. Also there any many great books on all the finer points, including books from the Sustainable Agriculture Network on cover crop characteristics, etc. Also take a look at Rodale books - they have some excellent material too like one on nothing but composting. It's a fascinating subject that'll wrap you in just like our chickens do to us. Just my opinion but chickens and vegetable gardening go together like peas and carrots.

 

[cactusrota]

Top layer/insulation to keep the moisture in works wonders here. Like 2-3 inches of mulch or woodchips, or strips of old carpet. The plants can grow right up and out of the mulch, or you just put down the strips of carpet with only a inch gap for the row where the plants will grow.

 

[ejcrist]

I have to admit, I love my raised beds. You know from previous discussions we've had that I'm a terrible gardener by nature, and since my home was built on what used to be a rock quarry, "soil" is practically an endangered species on my property. Having the raised beds allowed me to learn about which plants can thrive out here and when while working to improve the ground soil on my property. I dug what was supposed to be a small hole to plant some rosemary. Because of the massive rocks, some weighing as much as 20 lbs, my "small" hole had to be over three feet across and just as deep, worked for an entire day to improve drainage, and then filled in with mostly compost...all for a pot that wasn't even a foot deep.

How do you control the nutgrass that's so prevalent around here? Even solarizing doesn't kill that stuff and it grows feelers that are feet long. Now that I've improved some of the ground soil, I'm challenged by this native grass.

I have it in my yard and used to have it in my garden but I choked it out by planting buckwheat. Buckwheat is an excellent smother crop and will deny weeds sunlight. Dry conditions will do away with Nutgrass too but you get a lot more rain than we get up here so that's working against you. I wouldn't worry about it if it's just in your yard where you don't irrigate, just yank it occasionally. If it's in an irrigated manicured lawn I suppose you'd have to dig it unless you were ok with spraying to kill the grass and starting over. I avoid herbicides like the plague so I'd just remove it manually wherever and whenever I found it. If it's in your raised beds just dig it out manually since they should be small enough to maintain. Otherwise if you have a big plot I'd go with the buckwheat and then mow and till everything back into the soil and let it all dry out under the summer sun, then re-till and resume planting. That's what I'd do anyway.

In case you're interested, I'd highly recommend the book, "Managing Cover Crops Profitably" (http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition). It's an outstanding book that'll tell you everything you need to know about cover crops and how they can help you in your garden.

 

[Bobby Basham]

That'll work but it's only good for an extremely small garden and not cost effective here in the valley IMO. Back East it works better if you only want a small plot since the only real cost is the lumber or blocks to build the raised beds; the soil you just get from other parts of the yard. The idea is to raise the soil so it drains better and dries out in time to plant stuff in the spring since they get a lot of rain back there in the early part of the year. Out here the cost to build is the lumber/blocks and the soil, and then the cost of keeping it irrigated (with city water in most people's cases). You'll need a lot of irrigation since it'll be a real battle trying to maintain moist soil in this environment. So when you think about what you'll get out of it it's probably not worth the cost of the inputs.


This is just the Cliff Notes version of what you can do in general; there's a lot more information available from various sources if you want to learn more. One place you can start is the U of A Agricultural Extension - lots of info available there. Also there any many great books on all the finer points, including books from the Sustainable Agriculture Network on cover crop characteristics, etc. Also take a look at Rodale books - they have some excellent material too like one on nothing but composting. It's a fascinating subject that'll wrap you in just like our chickens do to us. Just my opinion but chickens and vegetable gardening go together like peas and carrots.

I still have my mini hand-held rotor-tiller that I haven't tried yet. I will till the soil around the run then put the actual boxes in place. These sections may only be 4 x 8 feet, well actually 4 x 16, extending around the outside of the run. My entire run is 16 x 16, excluding the cutout for my little 4 x 8 observation deck. --BB




Oh, that wasn't a good pic of my run...



I just want some simple boxes around the run to plant
some veggies.

 

[DesertChic]

I have it in my yard and used to have it in my garden but I choked it out by planting buckwheat. Buckwheat is an excellent smother crop and will deny weeds sunlight. Dry conditions will do away with Nutgrass too but you get a lot more rain than we get up here so that's working against you. I wouldn't worry about it if it's just in your yard where you don't irrigate, just yank it occasionally. If it's in an irrigated manicured lawn I suppose you'd have to dig it unless you were ok with spraying to kill the grass and starting over. I avoid herbicides like the plague so I'd just remove it manually wherever and whenever I found it. If it's in your raised beds just dig it out manually since they should be small enough to maintain. Otherwise if you have a big plot I'd go with the buckwheat and then mow and till everything back into the soil and let it all dry out under the summer sun, then re-till and resume planting. That's what I'd do anyway.

In case you're interested, I'd highly recommend the book, "Managing Cover Crops Profitably" (http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition). It's an outstanding book that'll tell you everything you need to know about cover crops and how they can help you in your garden.

Buckwheat, huh? Hmm.....never thought of that. I will DEFINITELY get that book. Thank you! But we cannot mow anything here. There's just too much rock and mowers kick it up and fling it everywhere...and break windows. Even the weed whacker gets a little risky at time. Can I let the chickens eat the buckwheat?

We don't really have landscaping, and I want to turn my front yard into a full edible garden. Lawns are beautiful out east, and completely impractical out here. If I'm going to plant something it either has to be something I can eat, something the chickens can eat, something to improve the soil, or something to attract pollinators. Otherwise I just let the desert be the desert...except for cactus. I'm too clumsy to allow cactus to grow where I can fall into it.

 

[ejcrist]

Buckwheat, huh? Hmm.....never thought of that. I will DEFINITELY get that book. Thank you! But we cannot mow anything here. There's just too much rock and mowers kick it up and fling it everywhere...and break windows. Even the weed whacker gets a little risky at time. Can I let the chickens eat the buckwheat?

We don't really have landscaping, and I want to turn my front yard into a full edible garden. Lawns are beautiful out east, and completely impractical out here. If I'm going to plant something it either has to be something I can eat, something the chickens can eat, something to improve the soil, or something to attract pollinators. Otherwise I just let the desert be the desert...except for cactus. I'm too clumsy to allow cactus to grow where I can fall into it.

Yep, sure can. Here's what it says in extension.org (http://articles.extension.org/pages/67472/feeding-buckwheat-to-poultry):

Use in Poultry Diets

The amino acid composition of buckwheat appears to be nutritionally superior to that of cereal grains, but this has not translated into good performance of poultry fed buckwheat-based diets. Buckwheat contains protease inhibitors and tannin, antinutritional factors that appear to inhibit performance. Buckwheat has some potential as a protein supplement to cereal grains. Buckwheat has a high lysine content, which can compensate for the lower lysine levels common in cereal grains.
Although some research shows that broiler feed can be composed of up to 60% buckwheat with no impact on overall body weight of the poultry, there is a reduction in feed efficiency when buckwheat composes so much of the diet. Diets of animals raised outdoors should not include such high levels of buckwheat. Buckwheat contains fagopyrin, a substance that increases skin sensitivity to ultraviolet (UV) light, leading to sunburns. It is recommended that poultry raised outdoors be fed a diet of no more than 30% buckwheat. As the cost difference between organic corn and buckwheat widens, it becomes more economical to include buckwheat in broiler diets.

Buckwheat is fast growing and does very well in poor soils - something we have plenty of in AZ. It also adds a lot of phosphorous when tilled in before flowering. It's easy to mow (mechanical or by hand) because the stems are hollow. It does require irrigation so if you're planting a small area you can just water by hand; if a bigger area a drip line is more efficient. Be advised, buckwheat is very prolific so if you allow it to go to seed you'll have a permanent self-sustaining stand of it as long as you irrigate it. That's not so much an issue out here since cutting off the water will quickly kill it. It'll tolerate high temperatures and I grow it most of the summer between plantings except for the very hottest periods. It can hack the heat even when it gets up over 100 but will die back if it gets over about 105-110.
Another good smother crop that requires almost no irrigation once established is sudan grass. Sudan grass has a thick root system and will choke out even the toughest weeds. It takes longer to establish than buckwheat but if you don't plan on planting a food crop for 2-3 months sudan grass is a great choice too. It's a weeds' worse nightmare. It adds a lot of biomass too and can tolerate extremely high heat and drought conditions - even more so than buckwheat. The only downside is it takes longer to grow than buckwheat which completes a life cycle in as little as 5 weeks. So I guess the deciding factor is how much time you have between food crops.
Sesbania is another cover that's extremely well adapted to our climate here - hardly needs any water at all once established. It's a legume so it adds nitrogen to the soil. Sesbania can get thick but it's nowhere near as good in choking out weeds than buckwheat or sudan grass.
In the winter a good cover is barley. Barley will choke out most weeds and tolerates alkaline soil better than any other cereal grain. I plant it anywhere I don't need to add additional N2 and since I have a good supply of chicken manure now I've been using it almost exclusively. Another good thing about it is it's probably the cheapest cereal grain to grow - you get a lot of bang for your buck.
All of the above are completely safe for chickens to eat so you'd actually get a 2 for 1 out of it if you plant any of them. Just let them grow a little more than what you'd normally want to incorporate in the soil and feed the difference to your birds. Here's a quick paper talking about feeding birds on pasture using some of the covers I talked about (http://ucanr.edu/sites/placernevadasmallfarms/files/102989.pdf). There's a lot more info out there on it - too many references to include in a post but google it and you'll see. I love cover crops. My life (and vegetable gardens) changed completely when I started using them many years ago.

 

[igorsMistress]

I have it in my yard and used to have it in my garden but I choked it out by planting buckwheat. Buckwheat is an excellent smother crop and will deny weeds sunlight. Dry conditions will do away with Nutgrass too but you get a lot more rain than we get up here so that's working against you. I wouldn't worry about it if it's just in your yard where you don't irrigate, just yank it occasionally. If it's in an irrigated manicured lawn I suppose you'd have to dig it unless you were ok with spraying to kill the grass and starting over. I avoid herbicides like the plague so I'd just remove it manually wherever and whenever I found it. If it's in your raised beds just dig it out manually since they should be small enough to maintain. Otherwise if you have a big plot I'd go with the buckwheat and then mow and till everything back into the soil and let it all dry out under the summer sun, then re-till and resume planting. That's what I'd do anyway.

In case you're interested, I'd highly recommend the book, "Managing Cover Crops Profitably" (http://www.sare.org/Learning-Center/Books/Managing-Cover-Crops-Profitably-3rd-Edition). It's an outstanding book that'll tell you everything you need to know about cover crops and how they can help you in your garden. 

Thank you for this info! We xeriscaped the front, still a work in progress. The back yard is our main focus now and I have a LOT of space where I want to kill off everything and then try eco turf. Gotta get rid of the crabgrass first. Getting this book.