Arizona Chickens

[wondertwinpower]

I ferment my feed, but I do the alcohol fermentation. Several things I read when I first started made it seem preferable to lacto fermentation.

Maybe you're not stirring it often enough? It should be stirred at least twice per day. I've never had mine go moldy and I've only dumped it once due to an iffy odor, and my bucket is outside and I've been doing it 6+ months. Another thing that might lead to moodiness is not using enough water. It needs to have a good layer of 2or so inches of water, at least, above the level of the solids when they settle.

Good luck, I think fermenting feed is totally worth it in the reduction in waste (poop) odor and reduction in wasted feed!

For those in the hot desert that feed fermented feed....can you give me some insight, please?
Yes, I have read the FF thread but it's overwhelming and not specific to our temps (if that may be my problem).
I have been doing the bucket method (3 g bucket, in the storage area of the coop). At first I tried using probiotics for fermentation instead of ACV for fear of alcohol fermentation. The birds seem to love it and it worked well for about a month but then started to mold. So, I dumped and started over again with the probiotics. After a few attempts at this I recently tried raw apple cider vinegar. But just a week and a half later it's not smelling very good. No mold and the birds are still eating it (even my dog tries to eat the feed, lol!) but I'm guessing that I'm just going to have to start over every 2-4 weeks which kinda defeats the fermentation process.
Is it the heat that's making it not work? Do you keep the FF in the house to keep it at a more stable temp? I'm thinking hubby probably won't go for that.
Any points, tips or tricks to get this to work for me?
Thank you!!!

 

[mom-to-5]

I ferment my feed, but I do the alcohol fermentation. Several things I read when I first started made it seem preferable to lacto fermentation.

Maybe you're not stirring it often enough? It should be stirred at least twice per day. I've never had mine go moldy and I've only dumped it once due to an iffy odor, and my bucket is outside and I've been doing it 6+ months. Another thing that might lead to moodiness is not using enough water. It needs to have a good layer of 2or so inches of water, at least, above the level of the solids when they settle.

Good luck, I think fermenting feed is totally worth it in the reduction in waste (poop) odor and reduction in wasted feed!

Thank you for your suggestions.
I do stir the feed twice a day when I feed them, but I do check on them several times a day and could stir more often, perhaps that would help.
I typically have 2-6 inches of water above the feed depending, so I don't think that's a problem. I only use water from the hose (which would contain chlorine) though and not distilled water.
I started thinking about something else...I do not fulling cover my FF with my bucket lid but rather just set it on half kilter so to speak. I assumed it needed to "breath". Should I have the lid on all the way?
Thanks again for your suggestions. I'm not giving up yet as my girls seem to love the feed and aren't complaining despite my multiple attempts to get this figured out.

 

[LindaMurphy]

They sure are pretty. I wish I could help but I would be afraid of infecting my chickens. They have never been sick yet and I would like to keep it that way. They sure are pretty though. What kind of chickens are they?

 

[chicksurreal]

When we let out our flock I stay with them.. I use a spray bottle when they get into the garden.. Our border collie love to wrangle up the little peeps.. The rooster gives everyone a head's up when something flys above.. Not that he would be able to protect if a hawk decided to swoop down. When he does his call for
"take cover" I look to see what type of bird.. So far no hawk's.. We have a ton of shade in the back.. Now when the sparrows come our BCM chases them off.
If you don't have time I would get a good dog. Also I here that crows are good at keeping preditors at bay.. Put out corn.. I will post up a list from another member..

Thanks! I never leave my chickens to free range alone anymore. a bobcat got two of our cockerels and after that I just couldn't leave them out alone anymore. We are in the middle of a wilderness area so there is no sure way to keep wild animals out.

It's great fun to hang out with them though, they take me on hikes all over the place!

I'd love to have Silkies, I just want to make sure they will be safe and happy here. I'm thinking it might happen!

We have hawks, eagles and all sorts of other predators out here, so I am not going to risk them being alone anymore, although we also have many crows that nest around here and they are great for shooing hawks and things away from the area. I feed them all the time to keep them coming back. Lol!

Our chickens are very flighty and very alert, but they are too precious to me to risk any more loss. I was heartbroken over our two that were lost.

Our cockerel is really good about watching for danger, he sees things all the time that I would never have noticed, he makes me a more observant person. Chickens are awesome, I'm so glad we decided to bring them into our lives. Thanks very much for your advice, I am so grateful for this forum and the people who come here.

 

[maryhysong]

Thank you for your suggestions.
I do stir the feed twice a day when I feed them, but I do check on them several times a day and could stir more often, perhaps that would help.
I typically have 2-6 inches of water above the feed depending, so I don't think that's a problem. I only use water from the hose (which would contain chlorine) though and not distilled water.
I started thinking about something else...I do not fulling cover my FF with my bucket lid but rather just set it on half kilter so to speak. I assumed it needed to "breath". Should I have the lid on all the way?
Thanks again for your suggestions. I'm not giving up yet as my girls seem to love the feed and aren't complaining despite my multiple attempts to get this figured out.

It does need to breath; do not seal the lid or over fill the bucket or you will have a real big mess. I just set the lid over the top of the bucket. If your's is actually open I wonder if bad bacteria are invading.

How often are you adding feed & water to the bucket? I have been doing it for almost 18 months. Yes my buckets live in the kitchen but that just means it's 30 degrees on winter nights and 85 on summer days, sometimes hotter. I have not had any off odors or had to start over. However, I do things a wee bit different than most.

I started mine with home made ACV and later added some yogurt. Sometimes I make a gallon of buttermilk and use that for some of the liquid. All these things do help keep up the level of correct bacteria. I do use tap water but I don't think our water is chlorinated; if it is it certainly is not as high as water I've tasted in Phoenix. If you think that's your problem, then let your water sit in an open container over night to allow the chlorine to dissipate.

I do not use as much liquid as most because I feed a mash which has a lot of fine powder. If I had a lot of water in there I would never be able to get the fine stuff out with the feed. I mix mine to the consistency of thick oatmeal. There will be a little bit of free liquid in the very bottom of the bucket when I get there.

Also I have a lot of birds and fill my buckets daily; every other day at the longest. This takes a little bit of time getting used to your feed and your birds. My feed smells different at times, sometimes more like pickles, sometimes more like sour dough, but never nasty or moldy smelling. Hope this helps a bit!

 

[Demosthine]

For those in the hot desert that feed fermented feed....can you give me some insight, please?
Yes, I have read the FF thread but it's overwhelming and not specific to our temps (if that may be my problem).
I have been doing the bucket method (3 g bucket, in the storage area of the coop). At first I tried using probiotics for fermentation instead of ACV for fear of alcohol fermentation. The birds seem to love it and it worked well for about a month but then started to mold. So, I dumped and started over again with the probiotics. After a few attempts at this I recently tried raw apple cider vinegar. But just a week and a half later it's not smelling very good. No mold and the birds are still eating it (even my dog tries to eat the feed, lol!) but I'm guessing that I'm just going to have to start over every 2-4 weeks which kinda defeats the fermentation process.
Is it the heat that's making it not work? Do you keep the FF in the house to keep it at a more stable temp? I'm thinking hubby probably won't go for that.
Any points, tips or tricks to get this to work for me?
Thank you!!!

Several things to note... First, you don't need to add anything to get a good fermentation going. There are natural yeasts in the air that will start that process very shortly. Alcohol fermentation is not going to occur because it is an anaerobic fermentation, meaning without air. In alcohol fermentation, the yeast offgases CO2, which is heavier than the natural air. It will force the oxygen out of the bucket, creating a layer of CO2 that will essentially seal the bucket. Thus, the reason you want to stir it every day. This adds oxygen in to the mixture and ensures proper lacto-fermentation, which is what we want to achieve.

Next, the temperature has little affect on the process so long as you do not get in to the cold range. They say it should be kept above 70*, but is absolutely best above 80*. As long as it is in the shade, even here in Arizona, it should not get hot enough to ruin a batch. Also, as I mentioned above, air is very important. You should not have a closed bucket or inhibit air circulation. If you are concerned with bugs getting in to it (chickens eat bugs, so who cares, right?!?), then you can cover it with a towel and secure it. Lack of air circulation is the primary reason that true mold will begin to grow. But that brings me to another point. Are you absolutely sure it was mold growing? A well-fermenting batch will develop a film on the top that will resemble mold, however, it seems to be a greyish or brownish color. This is the colony of beneficial bacteria, often called the "mother," that you want to grow. If you get in to making your own vinegar, which I highly suggest, there is a lot more information there on mother. If this does develop on the top, just mix it in to the batch and continue to serve it. It's the part of the fermentation that helps make it so absolutely healthy.

You said it is not smelling "very good." What does that mean, exactly? Not "very good" is an extremely relative term. Theoretically, it should smell sort of like sourdough bread. There is a definite, different smell to it that is absolutely repulsive to some, while others find it surprisingly sweet. Personally, I found the fermented feed to have a great smell to it. My wife, however, gagged every time I dished any up for the flock. Another part of this could be a change of feed brand, perhaps? If the feed has any animal protein in it, like fishmeal, it will have a much sharper smell to it. That's part of the reason many only ferment grains. Again, I don't mind it at all and in my batch of very well fermenting feed, that particular smell was non-existent. It was noticeable at first, but as the bucket matured, it went away and just became a good fermenting smell.

I kept the bucket in the garage because my flock entirely free-ranged. If I left it out anywhere, the entire bucket would be gone before I managed to walk back inside. It seems to be extremely addictive to them and they become little velociraptors, as many of us refer to them. That being said, it was never about the stable temperature. If I lived somewhere where it got significantly colder, like Showlow or Snowflake, it would be a different story.

The biggest tip I can give you is "Don't overthink it." It's a truly easy process. Add one-part feed and three-parts water to a large bucket and let sit for several days. Stir twice a day initially, but after the second or third day, once a day is fine. Top off with an appropriate amount of dry feed after every serving to keep the batch going well. That's all there is to it. You don't need to add ACV, probiotics, or any other starter to it.

Happy fermenting!

 

[alohachickens]

They sure are pretty. I wish I could help but I would be afraid of infecting my chickens. They have never been sick yet and I would like to keep it that way. They sure are pretty though. What kind of chickens are they?

They are Aloha chickens, you can see more here:

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/600281/the-aloha-chicken-project/1770

And yeah, not ideal for most BYC'ers? I think the perfect home for them would be a chicken person who lives out somewhere with not a lot of neighbors who isn't quite as "involved" in chicken raising as we BYC'ers are! Someone who just wants a nice coop of pretty chickens in their backyard, but doesn't want to sell, swap, collect a bunch more, etc. Like when I was a kid, we had chickens on the farm, but they were just our backyard hens, for our own egg production. So it was a "closed" flock as we didn't show or sell started pullets or anything. Someone with a nice safe coop or yard who is OK with just having these for a couple more years. Until they die of old age or need to be culled for fresh stock. (Just not now while they are still happy and productive!)

 

[maryhysong]

I hadn't thought of the slithering things, thank you. We get the chicks Fri but we will be building the coop on dh's days off

I do chain link or weld wire fence on everything; then cover the bottom part with chicken wire or hardware cloth to keep little babies in and little varmints out. Big dogs can bite holes in hardware cloth so if that was the only thing I had on something I would use 1/2 by 1" weld wire or the 1x1" weldwire sold for building cages but not hardware cloth.

 

[brlracr624]

So if big dogs can bite through it a coyote prob could too. Hmmm I really don't want to lose any to predators.

 

[mom-to-5]

Several things to note...  First, you don't need to add anything to get a good fermentation going.  There are natural yeasts in the air that will start that process very shortly.  Alcohol fermentation is not going to occur because it is an anaerobic fermentation, meaning without air.  In alcohol fermentation, the yeast offgases CO2, which is heavier than the natural air.  It will force the oxygen out of the bucket, creating a layer of CO2 that will essentially seal the bucket.  Thus, the reason you want to stir it every day.  This adds oxygen in to the mixture and ensures proper lacto-fermentation, which is what we want to achieve.

Next, the temperature has little affect on the process so long as you do not get in to the cold range.  They say it should be kept above 70*, but is absolutely best above 80*.  As long as it is in the shade, even here in Arizona, it should not get hot enough to ruin a batch.  Also, as I mentioned above, air is very important.  You should not have a closed bucket or inhibit air circulation.  If you are concerned with bugs getting in to it (chickens eat bugs, so who cares, right?!?), then you can cover it with a towel and secure it.  Lack of air circulation is the primary reason that true mold will begin to grow.  But that brings me to another point.  Are you absolutely sure it was mold growing?  A well-fermenting batch will develop a film on the top that will resemble mold, however, it seems to be a greyish or brownish color.  This is the colony of beneficial bacteria, often called the "mother," that you want to grow.  If you get in to making your own vinegar, which I highly suggest, there is a lot more information there on mother.  If this does develop on the top, just mix it in to the batch and continue to serve it.  It's the part of the fermentation that helps make it so absolutely healthy.

You said it is not smelling "very good."  What does that mean, exactly?  Not "very good" is an extremely relative term.  Theoretically, it should smell sort of like sourdough bread.  There is a definite, different smell to it that is absolutely repulsive to some, while others find it surprisingly sweet.  Personally, I found the fermented feed to have a great smell to it.  My wife, however, gagged every time I dished any up for the flock.  Another part of this could be a change of feed brand, perhaps?  If the feed has any animal protein in it, like fishmeal, it will have a much sharper smell to it.  That's part of the reason many only ferment grains.  Again, I don't mind it at all and in my batch of very well fermenting feed, that particular smell was non-existent.  It was noticeable at first, but as the bucket matured, it went away and just became a good fermenting smell.

I kept the bucket in the garage because my flock entirely free-ranged.  If I left it out anywhere, the entire bucket would be gone before I managed to walk back inside.  It seems to be extremely addictive to them and they become little velociraptors, as many of us refer to them.  That being said, it was never about the stable temperature.  If I lived somewhere where it got significantly colder, like Showlow or Snowflake, it would be a different story.

The biggest tip I can give you is "Don't overthink it."  It's a truly easy process.  Add one-part feed and three-parts water to a large bucket and let sit for several days.  Stir twice a day initially, but after the second or third day, once a day is fine.  Top off with an appropriate amount of dry feed after every serving to keep the batch going well.  That's all there is to it.  You don't need to add ACV, probiotics, or any other starter to it.

Happy fermenting!

Demo,
The way you describe it I'm thinking that it may not have been mold, ugh! Perhaps I was doing it right all along???
I do add dry feed every time I feed the chickens (twice daily), stir it and add water as needed.
I do have the organic Big Sky layer with fishmeal so that could explain the smell I usually get before I see grey stuff on the sides of the bucket and the top of the water.
Ok, I'll continue with no starter, and try not to over think it.
Like I said the chickens love it so I guess I shouldn't be too concerned. They will come up to me while I'm draining it, hop in my lap and try to eat out of the strainer, lol! I guess if they stop eating it I will know that something is really wrong.