Arizona Chickens

[meetthebubus]

"What you want from your birds is how you should make decisions. Do you want an egg laying machine, or eggs and meat? Will you cull the girls when they don't lay, sell them off to someone who will? Do you care that with egg laying machines you may have to cull on a regular basis? How do you feel about hatcheries and what they do, hatching and selling as many chicks as they can to make a profit while killing off the roos." @igorsMistress


It's really hard, anyone alive in this world today, now I only know about America and great Britain on this matter, but anyone alive today only knows of the egg and chicken as staples, where as before the world wars, rabbit was the staple Sunday dinner and there wasn't lots of egg farms, etc.

I can't cull my birds any more. I've worked with my chickens and I have taught them signs to communicate with them, chickens are smart and since I have such a extensive experience with them I can't kill them.

But I don't judge others who do (except that blogger I spoke about lol)

But your point is right so many choices and opinions on chicken care!

 

[meetthebubus]

Hahaha Jennifer Garner = kindred spirit

Google search 'Jennifer Garner chicken' under images you'll see her walking what looks like a buff orp on a leash

 

[meetthebubus]

https://www.google.com/search?q=jen...AUIESgB&biw=1280&bih=800#imgrc=iuXZUcH27gl9SM:

 

[SonoranChick]

https://www.google.com/search?q=jen...AUIESgB&biw=1280&bih=800#imgrc=iuXZUcH27gl9SM:

I am adding chicken harness and leash to my wish list I find this so cute. I know it's ridiculous but I like it!

 

[igorsMistress]

@meetthebubus I completely understand. I couldn't eat one of my girls. They're pets with benefits
We do want to raise some meat birds, but that's for a specific purpose, plus it won't support commercial operations.

 

[Bobby Basham]

What is a "heritage breed" really? There's so much talk about heritage vs hatchery, but heritage breeds aren't what they used to be. Go look on any thread here and you'll see arguments over what the sop is, how it has or hasn't changed, etc. Breeders have different goals, some breed for meat and others for egg production. Even on this thread, @cactusrota and @DesertChic breed NN's and may have similar but not identical goals for their breeding projects. They may or may not care about color of the bird, color of the eggs, etc. Not that cactusrota and DesertChic are arguing over anything btw, they're just both working on NN's and may have different goals.

Realistically, there's no such thing as a pure bred chicken, unless you go back to the jungle fowl they came from. Heritage breed or not, they've pretty much all been crossed with something to improve the original for one reason or another.

If these breeds are evolving/improving from something bred 50-60 ago, what use are the SOP standards other than providing a general guideline. Are they obsolete and/or exclude the new generations of dedicated breeders out there?

We've had early 1900's Model-T Fords, and look how far we've come. Do you want a SOP based on the Model-T? If we can improve upon an automobile, then why not a chicken?

This is just my opinion and haven't done any research on the SOP or APA, so I guess I'm writing out of ignorance.

 

[igorsMistress]

If these breeds are evolving/improving from something bred 50-60 ago, what use are the SOP standards other than providing a general guideline. Are they obsolete and/or exclude the new generations of dedicated breeders out there?

We've had early 1900's Model-T Fords, and look how far we've come. Do you want a SOP based on the Model-T?

This is just my opinion and haven't done any research on the SOP or APA, so I guess I'm writing out of ignorance.

That's the argument lol.

 

[DesertChic]

If these breeds are evolving/improving from something bred 50-60 ago, what use are the SOP standards other than providing a general guideline. Are they obsolete and/or exclude the new generations of dedicated breeders out there?

We've had early 1900's Model-T Fords, and look how far we've come. Do you want a SOP based on the Model-T?

This is just my opinion and haven't done any research on the SOP or APA, so I guess I'm writing out of ignorance.

There's actually a lot of argument out there about APA standards and how much they've changed, with some people arguing that SOP is now more about pretty feathers than about production. Others complain that there's a growing preference for abnormally large birds without regard to other standard features. And APA standards have been revised many times for many breeds. How could it not be with so many conventional and heritage breeds nearly having died off and having to be revived by small pockets of dedicated breeders and the infusion of outside blood?

There's a thread on here about Farming and Homesteading Heritage Poultry that I read from start to finish a couple years ago and learned a lot from, but reading some of the recent posts is enough to make me cringe. Some of the more sagacious posters seem downright vicious in their comments and more than a little confusing. A newbie posted some questions and was met with a barrage of complaints and condemnations at every turn, from criticisms of the APA and its standards to condemnation of anyone and everyone who now offers advice on poultry keeping. One poster was especially fond of insisting that everything is a matter of "common sense", as if a person with zero poultry experience should just automatically know by osmosis what's ideal and what's not.

There are still true heritage birds out there, but they're becoming increasingly rare, as are the dedicated breeders who've spent years and even generations working with them. I'm acquainted with one of the local poultry judges who introduced me to a breeder of Barred Rocks that has been working with a line that dates all the way back to 1926 within her family. In all that time they've never introduced outside blood and her birds were stunning. Breeders like that, and birds like that, are hard to come by.

 

[MagicChicken]

If these breeds are evolving/improving from something bred 50-60 ago, what use are the SOP standards other than providing a general guideline. Are they obsolete and/or exclude the new generations of dedicated breeders out there?

We've had early 1900's Model-T Fords, and look how far we've come. Do you want a SOP based on the Model-T?

This is just my opinion and haven't done any research on the SOP or APA, so I guess I'm writing out of ignorance.

The SOP standards have, at their core, the basics for a healthy and long-lived productive bird. Secondary are the individual breed characteristics of body & head shape, posture, feathering and other details. Items that disqualify a bird from meeting the standard for its breed are traits that adversely affect health and productivity, or otherwise undesirable traits that are easily passed on to future generations.
​

It is easy to let a good quality bred-to-standard breed decline into a flock of nondescript, undersized, generic chickens. It takes careful consideration to maintain a flock of birds to breed standard. It is extremely difficult to recover breed standard traits once the flock has degenerated into generic nothingness. Unfortunately, many of the breeds in the standard are devolving into generic nothingness.

"Heritage" breeds are not an official thing. "Heritage" is a popular term describing breeds and variants that were in the SOP prior to the 1950's, before commercial poultry production took off as an industry. Commercial poultry production has brought us generic super-laying chickens, and modern meat birds designed to mature to harvestable stage in 12 weeks or less. (With my "heritage" breed I can't even tell if some birds are male or female at 12 weeks.) Those birds are bred for production environments. Not for backyard and small farm use. The "Heritage" breeds were usually bred FOR backyard and small farm use. There are precious few lines of birds that have survived the last 60-70 years without being crossed with other breeds. That does not negate the focus on maintaining breed quality. But it does make it more difficult.

 

[cactusrota]

This right here...

The SOP standards have, at their core, the basics for a healthy and long-lived productive bird. Secondary are the individual breed characteristics of body & head shape, posture, feathering and other details. Items that disqualify a bird from meeting the standard for its breed are traits that adversely affect health and productivity, or otherwise undesirable traits that are easily passed on to future generations.
​

It is easy to let a good quality bred-to-standard breed decline into a flock of nondescript, undersized, generic chickens. It takes careful consideration to maintain a flock of birds to breed standard. It is extremely difficult to recover breed standard traits once the flock has degenerated into generic nothingness. Unfortunately, many of the breeds in the standard are devolving into generic nothingness.

"Heritage" breeds are not an official thing. "Heritage" is a popular term describing breeds and variants that were in the SOP prior to the 1950's, before commercial poultry production took off as an industry. Commercial poultry production has brought us generic super-laying chickens, and modern meat birds designed to mature to harvestable stage in 12 weeks or less. (With my "heritage" breed I can't even tell if some birds are male or female at 12 weeks.) Those birds are bred for production environments. Not for backyard and small farm use. The "Heritage" breeds were usually bred FOR backyard and small farm use. There are precious few lines of birds that have survived the last 60-70 years without being crossed with other breeds. That does not negate the focus on maintaining breed quality. But it does make it more difficult.