Articular Gout?

[naylorchic]

Hi! I have a 2 year old red production rooster, Richard whose feet are in horrible condition. As he matured they were always kind of red, but over time they have just gotten worse and worse.

At first I thought it was scaley leg mites. I treated everyone with ivermectin about 8 days ago. And dusted the coops and lot with Sevin dust. The more I looked at pics online of chickens with the mites vs his feet they really just didn’t looked the same to me. Or maybe he has that and something else. I’m not sure.

None of the hens seem to have it. All the hens feet seem fine and he has no other symptoms that I can tell. I will say though that I did lose a few hens this winter with no apparent symptoms and i didn’t think to check the feet.

So I’ve done a lot of googling and it’s really hard to find pics of chickens with gout. I’m wondering if you all can look at his feet and see what you think. If it is gout I’m thinking articular bc it’s def chronic and I think I read visceral is acute.

I don’t think it’s bumblefoot bc both feet are identical. Plus I can only see one small scab on the back of one foot. He’s really hard to catch so I couldn’t take a pic of the bottom of his feet. We checked it on Sat though and soaked them in epsom salt and warm water.

I would love to hear your input!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

Most roosters will get red between the toes. It's because of hormones, and can be a sign they are fertile. I don't know about the swelling. What do you feed?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Articular gout is a good guess.
To give you advice/information on the condition, I have to know what the rooster has been fed his entire life.
What feeds (protein % and calcium %) were fed and at what ages they were changed?
What has your flock been fed recently?

 

[naylorchic]

Yeah that’s why I was never really alarmed about the redness. He eats layer feed like my hens which I now realize isn’t good and could actually cause gout. So I read diluting the feed could MAYBE help but I didn’t want to necessarily do that to the hens. So I put cracked corn in a separate feeder. Next time I buy feed I’m going to get grower feed and put out oyster shell separately. I also started putting ACV in the water as well.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

It could be caused by the layer feed. Definitely switch to an All Flock or a non medicated grower with a separate bowl of oyster shells for your hens calcium needs.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Articular gout is a consequence of excess protein. Visceral gout is a consequence of excess calcium.'Your rooster is likely a victim of too much protein in the diet.
A mature male chicken can do well on about 13% protein. Your bird has likely been eating much higher levels of protein his entire life.
While excess calcium from the layer feed can cause kidney problems for non-egg producing birds, a high protein all-flock feed could exacerbate your rooster's problem.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

My roosters do fine on an 18% all flock ration.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

My roosters do fine on an 18% all flock ration.

That is your roosters. That isn't all they eat.
Roosters that consume only 18% protein with no free range, grains or other input may have issues processing the excess protein by their livers that they don't need for bodily function.

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

That is your roosters. That isn't all they eat.
Roosters that consume only 18% protein with no free range, grains or other input may have issues processing the excess protein they don't need by their livers.

Mine are free ranged and get scratch, so you could be correct. I don't have experience with long term confinement with my roosters.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

A rooster doesn't need the protein a hen needs to produce a big lump of protein in an egg a day. Mature roosters are already grown. They can't utilize high levels of protein in the diet. Research shows that the ideal protein feed levels in mature roosters is 13%.

Studies associated with excess protein - it especially shows the problem is particularly associated with males.

http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/gout

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7393846

https://www.poultryshowcentral.com/chicken_gout.html

https://countrysidenetwork.com/dail...cognizing-and-treating-chicken-foot-problems/

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...s-of-poultry/urate-deposition-gout-in-poultry

Renal issues, whether related to excess calcium or respiratory disease, will exacerbate the negative effects of protein on both the liver and kidneys.

IMHO, too many people on this forum advocate for high protein levels in chicken diets with no research to support that it is necessary or even supportive or possibly damaging.
While chicken chicks and young birds can utilize 18-22% protein, it doesn't take long before that becomes excessive when they are no longer growing bodies. The only time I would provide above 17% protein to adult hens is if they were in molt.