Australorps breed Thread

[groche]

Hi folks,
stinking hot here so I'm stuck indoors! Slipped out to take a few pics for you. The first I've actually taken myself, so they aint great! Thought I'd try to elaborate on what I meant by 'Langshan-combed' by illustration. The first 2 are of the mother of the 'langshan-combed' boy posted earlier. Only he came out with this comb, but it's worth noting that girl's combs tend to be more upright than the boys, in both Utility and Exhibition strains.







This is my (sorry, must have pressed something!) bantam Australian Langshan boy, "Hancock". Be nice to him as he's moulting! And, his conformation's much better than his comb! You can see the common heritage, eh? Now, if you draw an imaginary line joining Hancock's points, you'll end up above the top right corner. These birds are called the "bird of V's". Note the distinct V formed between the comb and neck.


There's a much better pic of Derrick's head posted earlier, but this'll do for illustration purposes, or use my avatar. Derrick didn't like me behind the camera and was very uncooperative, holding his head too high! However, if you do the join the points exercise, you'll see that his comb tends downwards, following the neck line. Note tiny V.
Hope this provides a cleare explanation, especially for those unfamiliar with Langshans.
Cheers Geoff

 

[groche]

Dunno how this ended up here! Not pic 1.

Hi again, folks.
Once again, poor pics, but I was hoping to show that I'm getting a bit more curve in my girls, though the pullet in pic 1 looks a bit flat-backed here.








Same bird from back. Thigh fluff not too bad.

Some random pics of some of the older pullets, who were even more camera-shy than Derrick! Didn't seem to recognise me with a camera in front of my face.







Not happy!!! The clearsighted may notice my usual quota of misidentified cockerels in here!


It's not hard to pick the head of the 'original' Judson strain of Utility BA's is it. She has filled out from the pic I posted of her earlier and looks more like a smaller Exhibition BA in conformation, complete with disappointingly fluffy thighs! But that head, eh? Sure looks like a Utility there! Looks kinda evil compared with the rounder, smoother, more benign-looking Exhibitions. Eye of the beholder thing! Note very upright comb, showing Langshan egglaying imput. The Exhibition girls heads/faces will improve. Can't say the same for combs as Derrick hasn't managed to spread his, I think good comb (Cuba may have noted the small wrinkle at the front!) to his progeny very successfully. Starting to think combs may be more a girl influence, but it doesn't sound right. Must research!



Weather improving from tomorrow, so I'll stop 'hogging' your thread and get on with some pen building!

Cheers Geoff

 

[groche]

Cuba, had a closer look at your 'not too long' post. Really impressed with the attitude displayed in the following ".... decided future generations are more important than a placing." Not only gonna be a fine judge, but a breeder with more respect for the breed than the 'glittering prizes'. A great combo! The prizes oughta be earned I reckon.
We seem to be trying to deal with very similar issues in our breeding. You'll have read earlier that I've got comb point issues that I didn't really expect. Found your comment "...from a trio of birds with 5 points last year, I produced only about 5 or 6 that had less than 7 points and all but 1 were females.", interesting. My experience included around half the cockerels. Not 7 points, but too many! No wonder we need to breed so many birds to get a few good'uns. Establishing a consistant line is the aim of the master breeder and as we're finding, it aint easy!
Fair dinkum, I see you as one of the 'Great (whatever colored) Hopes' of American poultry. I saw an online presentation by a young American girl on mille fleur d'Uccles that was excellent. You folk seem to be doing a great job of 'training' the next generations!
Cheers Geoff

 

[groche]

Sorry folks,
in joining the dots on the Langie, they should finish in the left top corner, not the right. The 'oldtimers' again!
Cheers Geoff

 

[aveca]

LOVE the pics of that group of pullets! absolutly beautiful Geoff...you are luckey to get up every day and see those..Wish Australia could lift the import export ban..But that deadly bird flu would be a very good reason to impose that...

Keep forgetting your in summer Heat wave..we are about to get hit with a big noreaster ..some places might get up over 2 ft of snow...we might get 6 to 8..BLUK!

The most important thing is to promote kids in poultry..they carry the torch ...If they have a good experience , most of them will carry on with it..We try to give them every advantage to be a sucess , let them know it isnt going to be handed to them..they have to work for it...sadly there are some adults that activly work to drive out anything they perceive as a threat, real or imagined..sad but it happens they dont care if its a kid or not..good thing classes are separate JR - adult.... but most people go out of thier way to build up these kids as the future...4H programs teach every aspect..lot of familys all over US work with kids..Dont charge them much if anything for birds..and teach them how to improve a little at a time..Sadly industrial revolution moved people away from poultry keeping toward factory farms..lot of good breeds like Australorp fell nearly extinct..we are all learning the art over again..dont think we will let it go again like that..

 

[WVDan44]

There's a much better pic of Derrick's head posted earlier, but this'll do for illustration purposes, or use my avatar. Derrick didn't like me behind the camera and was very uncooperative, holding his head too high! However, if you do the join the points exercise, you'll see that his comb tends downwards, following the neck line. Note tiny V.
Hope this provides a cleare explanation, especially for those unfamiliar with Langshans.
Cheers Geoff


Hello Geoff

Once again, thanks for the excellent tutorial and learning experience. I've not kept BAs for long, but I have viewed a lot of them in breeder's pens and photos and have to say that in my limited experience, a good comb like your Derrick'.s is maybe one in a thousand if that. Several breeders have echoed the statement that out of 100 birds hatched perhaps 94-95% may be culled. That may be great from a homesteading aspect but certainly disappointing for the show goer I would think. I wonder what percentage of cockerels are culled strictly due to comb issues, and furthermore how much more attentive should I be to the hen's combs which I tend to "brush over" a lot of the time. Someone who knows the genome may be able to tell us where the genes originate that decide comb issues in roos. I seem to recall it is equally from cock and hen, but don't know for sure. Perhaps this topic has been discussed at length on this thread in the past, so my apologies if I am walking plowed ground here. This is all very interesting and quite remarkable to a green horn like me.

 

[aveca]

Geoff. The thing I like the most about Australia's version is the depth in body..a nice deep keel..as seen in your pullet pen... a lot of ours lean toward either Leghorn look or bit much orp in fluff.with can I think be worked out..some more body shots like that are helpful.spectacular eyes on most all of them..over here, sometimes it's a challenge to make a silk purse from a sows ear..

Dan is right..lot of comb work to be done here..you often see fishtails and way too many points.

 

[WVDan44]

Hi Aveca -

I think it was Geoff who said earlier that the comb accounts for a small percentage of points (5 in U.S.) while body type accounts for up to 50% of potential points. In my mind, a good comb adds to the overall beauty of the bird, and would influence my initial impression of a specimen. I think one would have an immediate slightly favorable advantage with judges based on that first impression if the comb is right on, being arguably as much of a cosmetic feature as a structural one.

CubaKid, what do you think? Set me right on this.

 

[cubakid]

You are correct with how the judges do judge, paying a lot of attention to the comb, but in reality it is worth only 5 points...there are 12 points allowed for just the back alone. Then 10 for breast. (Body and fluff), wings, tail, (legs and toes) are all worth 8 points each. Neck is 6. Condition and vigor is 10 points. Weight/size is only worth 4 points. All together (shape and size) is worth 64 points. Head is worth 22 points. 4 for symmetry, and then the previous 10 for condition and vigor.
If judges are picking incorrect backs they are throwing away the most valuble part of the point system... I really do like the point system used by Germany, wher birds are actually scored. This would actually improve the birds shown, and thier type, because the breeders might be embarrassed of type and strive to breed a better bird before they show something inferior. Just my opinion though.

 

[groche]

Dan,
I think you're correct re gender input to combs. My understanding is that each parent contributes one each of the two genes that control comb type. This is also supported by our experience. Doesn't help much when trying to breed better combs. Too much 'pot luck' until you have an established line, and even then......! On the other hand, Ray Connor suggests that, re 'defluffing', we should " select that extremely tight feathered male first, otherwise, if you have a bit of loose feathering develop in your females it quickly becomes difficult to find a tight feathered male.An Australorp must be tight feathered..."
Cheers Geoff