Auto Bailout.......

[Reinbeau]

Auto bailout to national health care - somehow it always ends up there.

The bailout is a bad idea all around for all of the industries, from mortgages through auto makers. Poorly run, stupid decisions, greedy unions, even greedier upper management, all of these things are the cards holding up the financial house, and people at the top are frantically trying to grasp at anything that will keep them at the top while the flimsy underpinnings are falling away.

We don't need socialism, we need honestly run businesses using real accounting methods, paying decent wages and making good products to bring to market. It's really simple. Then we need to dismantle the insurance industry, another huge messy kettle of fish that's very poorly understood by the lay person. Insurance is, after all, nothing more than legalized gambling, and the government has gone right along with them stacking the decks against the insured, thus insuring (pun intended) the money stays in the industry.....they do anything and everything they can to avoid paying claims.....if cards were played like that in Las Vegas people would be arrested! The money that flows in insurance is absolutely amazing - AIG just got caught, they're all doing the same thing. But money equals power, and the powerful don't want to give up anything

 

[I have WHAT in my yard?]

Quote:
Most Americans have no idea what politics is. They think that it does not affect them. I say if you do not do politics, politics will do you.

Americans are taught to misunderstand words like socialism. Funny how the rest of the world profits and thrives from it. I guess we do not need the police, firefighters, post offices, or schools. It is every man for himself. It is a dog eat dog world and you are on your own…good luck.

"A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life depends on the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the measure as I have received and am still receiving."
-- Albert Einstein

Good post!

 

[HennysMom]

Hubby and I were just discussing this last night actually. ANY bailout is a bad idea, from housing, to banking to auto.

Per auto industries - okay - $1600.00 per every car sale goes directly to union fees. So...not to bash union workers, but.... if the auto industry is going "downhill" so fast -then do away with those fees and, uh - there's a start!

Housing bailout - dont even get me started! Predatory lending?!! No one forced you to get a credit card, no one forced you to go to Check Cashing places that charge 30% interest - if you dont have the $ at that time to do something, then you dont have it, simple as that! I can understand how sometimes emergencies come up - but.....there are other ways. Houses: How about if you couldnt afford the dang house to begin with then you shouldnt of purchased it with the "great insight" that those "predatory lenders & realtors that twisted your arm"

into signing that ARM that you signed stating "your income should go up...riiiiggghhhtt??" How about living within your means for a change and not having that "mansion on the hill?" Now there's a novel idea!!! Dont get me started because what about those of us that DO pay our bills, DO live within our means hmmm?? We foot the bill for everyone else that cant manage their money!

Banking industry bailout - OMG - lets start with the CEO's and pork belly and chop from there!

Ugh - I mean honestly - WHERE does it end if we bail out every industry and business?! Let this start and then its never going to end! you're' going to have every other business come into play and say "Well you bailed out the banks, you bailed out the homeowners, you bailed out the credit card companies, you bailed out the auto industries - now its time you bail out the retailers because we took a dive too and cant make a living either"

yet here I sit (and you and you and you!) paying my bills faithfully, making my mortgage payment, paying my taxes - and grateful my husband busts his tail every day because HIS job is just as unsecure due to budget cuts, he's not getting his raise this year, he's lost his COLA next year (and earlier this year btw) but yet we still manage and keep trekking along because we MUST.

Argh - its maddening and aggrevating.

Dont even get me started about the "new and improved" healthcare system that our new president elect wants to start. last I looked we lived in a Democratic society - not a socialistic one - and all of that "change for the better" yeah well - that "change" can cost us our health insurance and we have pretty dang good coverage - and for what? To go to a "gov't system" so that "every person can have coverage" in America? Every person DOES have coverage in America - its called Medicare/Medicaid/free state healthcare - look at the stats in your state! No person can be turned down for medical if you go to a hospital ER, its against the law, period. Problem is, people just dont care and would rather vetch and complain about "oh poor me" instead of getting up and doing something. And....that nice "gov't ran healthcare plan" - yeah look at what a great job they're doing with the current one we have - its called Medicare! And they dont know how to run that either!

Gov't at its best...

 

[birdnutz]

My Dh is a Union worker with the Union Pacific RR. Why is it always the workers fault when a company gets into trouble? He makes a good wage,but I wouldn't consider it anything but lower middle class. I believe the top heavy corporation mind set is more to blame. I've watched our health insurance and co-pay go up every year now for 15 years. But management gets there's paid 100% and no co-pay. Plus for every union job they cut and expense they save goes into their pocket as a bonus. I believe AIG proved this with their $400,000.00 dollar trip to a spa on the tax payer.
I do agree with PP that the insurance company does need to be revamped. I had the pleasure of fighting them all last year after my house fire. But needless lawsuits don't help either. I don't believe the socialized health care idea is on the right track. Heck the goverment can't even run itself in the green,how is it going to keep a health care program up?
Bailing out the auto industry is a problem in conscious for me. Can the US afford to put that many more people out of work? Not only would the industry go bankrupt but I see alot of chapter 7s on the workers. Right now I'd say that they are paying their bills and feeding their families.(living within their means). But what happens if thats taken away? How hard of an impact will that have on the economy?

 

[HennysMom]

bird -

I'm not totally against unions, what I said was why is it that the price is so much higher because its union? If its that much of an issue, then lower the $1600.00 per auto fee - why does it have to be that much? Its like Giant grocery stores - they are union, however, I can get the exact same name brand foods at FoodLion for cheaper - why? Because I'm not paying a union fee. Why should I? Now thats not to say I dont shop at Giant Foods sometimes - I do - but..most of the time..I do not because of the extreme mark up in prices due to union. Safeway was the same way and look what happened to them.

Give me any of the 3 auto industries that are now 100% American. You cant - because they arent. There isnt one company left I dont think that IS 100% American any longer - and thats the problem. Its cheaper to outsource. Look at Walmart - in the beginning what was their #1 Motto? "Made in the USA" - HA HA HA! Yeah....So much for Sam W's vision huh? Look at every freakin' tag/item now...it says "made in China, indonesia, India..etc".

I just dont believe in paying union dues to companies and here's why -here's the problem - Unions represent about 11 million members, including 2 million members in working america; so if the union is the way - then why not make every job in America union, and main reason is for healthcare and pension benefits - are we not all entitled to that benefit? Okay...but - my husband is not union and our healthcare gets paid, he has a pension, but...he cannot go on strike for more money, he cannot do that and keep his job! Union workers can do that and keep their jobs! Wouldnt that solve the unemployment situation, layoffs in the US we are facing currently if we were all Union?

Union workers earn 30 percent more each week than nonunion workers and are much more likely to have health and pension benefits

If we are going into this new "change is better" with this new president - then why not Unionize the entire job system in America and make us all equal-pay-for-performance and make us all union workers???

See my point? Seems to me it would work to America's advantage.

 

[AhBee01]

birdnutz
I agree with you. My DH is an auto worker, gave up his business as a carpet cleaner, to make sure we had better health care. He is still kicking himself for giving up his business.
We live within our means, if we can't pay for it in cash, we don't buy.
We were given our property by my father, and built a home one we thought we could always afford. We didn't build a mansion, we built a 3 bedroom 2 1/2 bath home. We cut costs by doing a lot of the work ourselves.
If the big 3 go under, not only will my DH loss his job, my town will go under as well, my sons will not have jobs as there jobs depend on GM in some sort of way or another.
The small mom and pop joints will close because they depend on the auto workers money. It will be a huge trickle down effect.My town started to go under as the steel mills left for over seas and such, this will devastate this town.
My husband makes a decent wage, but we have been living pay check to pay check for years due to the rising cost of everything, our so called health ins has been picked a part.
They no longer cover meds for allergies which 3 of us depend on to even get through a day, my youngest being borderline asthmatic. The health care system stinks, my Mom is not insured, she worked For Sears, and they cut her Hrs back just enough so they wouldn't have to pay for health care. They just did away with her job, and the unemployment in Ohio has run out. She is 60 yrs old single and on her own. It is just so scary. My Mom is a hard worker and has nothing left to show for it.
I went back to work, and was laid off 8 weeks after I started.
We are scared to death, we don't want to lose our home.
My husband couldn't even start his business back up, cuz I'm sorry, people around here will want to eat, not have there carpets cleaned.
I agree things need to change, but most people have no idea how much we all depend on the auto industry since steel isn't made in the US anymore, we really have nothing to fall back on.
We need to get our industries back, start making things in the USA, supporting the USA,
and stop settling for the crap we buy from other countries. Things that can harm our children and that sort of thing.
We need to take our country back!
Brenda

 

[HennysMom]

Quote:
absolutely!

I agree with both of you in respect to what you've both said - I want to make that clear, I'm not totally agaisnt unions, its that they do not and are not American any longer and if they cut the top and start from there, reorganize and cut out all the bull - and bring them back to what they were originally, I dont think most people would have issues with them.

It starts at the top and goes downhill - it always does unfortunately. I feel awful for all those that may and have lost their jobs, its terrible. Its day to day with my husband as well as I posted in another thread and we live paycheck to paycheck (I mean, what family doesnt now a days!).

I just think that if we're going to keep unions - then the gov't could learn something by re-visiting the "union" approach I guess is what I'm trying to say - but regardless we absolutely should keep every company American and quit outsourcing . Pensions and benefits are so important (hence such the big thing over healthcare reform) and while unions have the right idea in those aspects - I dont think any American right now would have an issue paying dues into something that would guaentee their job in such a way that most unions (of old...) used to do. If it was securing their job - then absolutely - I'd pay a due to do such a thing! What I dont agree on insofaras unions is that they get paid on average more than the same person working in a nonunion job doing the exact same job. Sort of like a man gets paid more than a woman doing the exact same job with the same qualifications and degrees - it isnt right.

THAT is how it should be - for every American.

Am I making sense? God I hope so...I guess I'm just very passionate when it comes to keeping our jobs here in America and our rights as workers should all be the same, I dunno....

 

[birdnutz]

My DH can't strike either. Reagan signed the National Security agreement on the airlines and of course put the RR on also. My DH pays his own union dues,plus can insurance,plus death and a fee on his health inurance.I do believe that everyone should have available some kind of health care,as for retirement you have social security. What a joke that turned into. Now we want the government to run our medical too? How will the goverment keep costs down? Probably by telling the medical community how much they will get paid for a procedure. People condemn the auto industry when our own government runs in the red also. They just have a guarenteed income.
I don't know why Safeway is more expensive, I worked there for a while. They start you out a minimum wage and if you're lucky you might get a raise. McDonalds wages are the only reason I got one. And that was only up to McDonalds beginning wage. Wouldn't want an exec. to loose their large bonus from cutting costs. Walmart starts out double that.
Some business sets the standered for wages. In my case it was McDonalds because we are right to work state. Is this the way we really want the US to go? Or would you rather a union based job set the base wages? The coal mines out here run almost the same as the RR. Why? Because of the union. It makes me a lttle nervous that a union company sets the wage they'll pay you by using McDonalds as a base.

 

[Guitartists]

My husband is an auto-worker ...... there are no easy answers.

 

[chickenchickenbulkbulk]

MY HUSBAND IS A STEEL WORKER AND YOUR RIGHT..THERE IS NO EASY ANSWER. MY HUSBAND WILL BE LAID OFF IN A FEW MORE DAYS. HIS COMPANY ISN'T BEING HONEST WITH THE WORKERS AND THEY HAVE REFUSED TO MEET USW UNION TO DISCUSS THE ISSUE THAT IS AT HAND. I FEEL THEY OWE A MEETING TO THE WORKERS. EVERYTHING IS HUSH HUSH..THE COMPANY ISN'T UP HOLDING THE CONTRACT THEY SIGNED A FEW YEARS BACK. LIKE MY HUSBAND SAID THE COMPANY WILL DO WHAT EVER THEY WISH REGARDLESS OF CONTRACT OR UNION. THEY WILL FIND LOOP HOLES IN CONTRACT AND THE UNION WILL ONLY GET THE ANSWERS THE COMPANY CHOOSES TO GIVE THEM!!! WE ARE NOT GOING TO ALLOW THIS COMPANY TO MAKE OR BREAK US. WE WILL MAKE IT!! I PUT MY LIFE IN THE HANDS OF A HIGHER POWER. NOT IN THE HANDS OF A COMPANY OR MAN. AND JUST THINK WE ALWAYS HAVE OUR CHICKENS!!