B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[msladyhawke]

oh meant to mention, msladyhawke, looks like you might have the assortment I was predicting in your chicks...  the darkest being red, the lighter chipmunks being pyle and the whites being...  well, white.  LOL

I'm curious to see how they color out, if I'm right on that.

Mr. Russell said the chipmunk is a red, the rest are pyles with a chance of white. Time will tell i guess.

 

[msladyhawke]

It may be worth trying my idea with the Horstman reds then. Even as a side project to see how it works. If it is not a big setback with color, it would probably be good for type and it would give me a way to get a little different blood in the mix. Of course I would want to get back to that beautiful color though! Wow! I still have to go back and look at those beautiful pics Msladyhawke posted!

He is splendid, and that was a shot in my basement. I can't wait to get a shot of him with the sun shining on him in spring!

 

[ki4got]

So, if I breed a red Pyle with a dominant white, I would get 50% (theoretically) red Pyle heterozygous for dominant white. Breeding these together should (again theoretically) give 25% red Pyle homozygous for dominant white, 25 % heterozygous for dominant white which would be phenotypically red Pyle, and 25% regular red. This assumes the white isn't hiding other colors. Is that correct? And the only way to know which of these offspring were homozygous for the dominant white, and would therefore breed true, would be test breeding?

I think that the pure white are probably also E (extended black) which would eliminate any markings of any sort, while the dorking is e+ so that in itself might also pose an issue... reading up, I think dominant white on e+ (wild type) may produce pyle as well, but not positive... I think the best pyle will be heterozygous for dom. white and the homozygous might be too white... again it would take some playing with, but seeing what you get for chicks will help narrow that down some too.

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
ROFL I have 3 incubators and 1 hatcher running 24x7...

and on an AWESOME note, I got my first red dorking egg today. they've been with the new roo close to a week now, but haven't been laying prior to being penned, so doubt they were receptive to any roos... going to collect a 7-10 days worth and see what happens.

 

[cukooformarans]

Wow that went way over my head what is extended black? Thanks for your patience

 

[Laingcroft]

Wow that went way over my head

what is extended black? Thanks for your patience

Extended black (genetic notation 'E') is the complete coverage of black coloration in the chicken, basically all black feathers and black legs. Chicks hatch solid black or black with white/off white bibs/chests/chins and turn black as feathers come in. It is the most dominant base color. There are four other base colors - birchen (ER), Duckwing aka Partridge or wild color (e+), Brown (eb) and Wheaten (eWh). Collectively they are known as the 'e-series' in genetic speak.

There are a lot of other genetic alleles or switches that make modifications to the base colors.

Dominant white (I) blocks the expression of black pigments when only one copy is present (heterozygous), leaving red feathered areas alone, producing pyle in the duckwing (e+) and blocks both black and red pigments when two copies of the gene (homozygous) are present, producing an all white chicken.

Think of recessive white (c) as an albino (though not a true albino). Since it is recessive it can only express when present in a double dose which is another way of creating a solid white chicken.

 

[cukooformarans]

So, if extended black results in a solid black bird and is the most dominant allele, why would we think a solid white bird has extended black? Ha- I am so clueless! Thanks for all of you guys patience!!!

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
actually other mutations cause the black skin, beak and leg pigment... extended black increases the melanistic pigment (black/blue) across the entire feather. only a few mutations can affect extended black. they are barred (alternates pigment with a lack of pigment, creating the barred look to the feather), mottled, causes a white tip on each feather, and white. either dominant or recessive, which removes all other pigments from the feathers.

if you look at my signature line, you'll see an article I wrote on genetics of chickens. if you read through that, it might explain some of the mutations a bit more easily.

 

[Laingcroft]

actually other mutations cause the black skin, beak and leg pigment... extended black increases the melanistic pigment (black/blue) across the entire feather. only a few mutations can affect extended black. they are barred (alternates pigment with a lack of pigment, creating the barred look to the feather), mottled, causes a white tip on each feather, and white. either dominant or recessive, which removes all other pigments from the feathers.

if you look at my signature line, you'll see an article I wrote on genetics of chickens. if you read through that, it might explain some of the mutations a bit more easily.

E chickens are most commonly dark legged. Yellow legs can appear in the E chickens but I believe it's due to the presence of yellow skin/shank gene modifiers, not a lack of melanizer. And yes, dark skin as in the Silkie and Cemani, is the result of melanizers (I think sex linked as well in the Silkie) At least that's my understanding from many reads of Sigrid's book --- but then I'm still learning too. So much to wrap the brain around in chicken genetics --- complicated by the Z/W sex chromosome reversal from mammals and sex linked genes like the barring tossed into the pot.

 

[Laingcroft]

So, if extended black results in a solid black bird and is the most dominant allele, why would we think a solid white bird has extended black? Ha- I am so clueless! Thanks for all of you guys patience!!!

Think of white this way. Dominant white is like a gauzy, low thread count white sheet. When you fit it over a black and red chicken, you can only see whatever red is present through the sheet. If you double up the layers to two sheets, then all you see is the white sheet shaped over the chicken -- black and red are both "invisible" to you though they are still present in the chicken under the sheet. If no red was present to begin with i.e. a solid black chicken, then you won't see anything but the white sheet even if it was only one layer thick. That's because dominant white only blocks black in one dose or layer. Now sometimes that one layer can still be thin in spots and a peak or two of black will show through as flecks or spots in the white feathers.

Recessive white sheets on the other hand are so thin they must be present in two layers or you can see through it. Any colors present, both red and black, will still show through a single layer.

Does that help or make it as clear as mud?