B.Y.C. Dorking Club!

[Yellow House Farm]

I can't wait til I can post some pics of our whites, blacks and the new chicken coop project. Might just take some new video's instead. I need a new card reader or a new camera because win7 don't work with my old reader and I don't know if they still make readers for the cards from the 2002 era.

This new coop will be set up almost entirely for breeding and raising Dorking offspring for selection. Of course we will put the culls to good use. It's going to be 56x14 feet and have 5 separate areas for clans and another area for rooster cages. There are going to be some huge runs and they will be partially enclosed with fencing (on top also) but attached to larger open (on top) runs for frolicking and scratching during the day when they get out of chick stage.

Still lots of work to do with the whites but this is going to make it so we can hatch a serious number and raise 100 or more them to their full potential each year. Our SandHill blacks are interesting and we might work further with those also.

It's taken longer to get to this new coop project than I was expecting but we are on it now. We have the corner posts set in and the thing looks so large from the house. We're pretty stoked.....Pics and/or video coming soon.

Awesome prospect with the dimensions!!!

Lots of work, indeed! I find the pullets to be easier that the cockerels, but, then again, I find pullets to be easier that cockerels in all breeds. They're high in the legs; it seems. But one keeps selecting. The genetic diversity, however, which is also the root of many of the problems, does insure, though, that they're tough and healthy. Is everything progressing well?

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Thanks for the help. The sunken leader is a good pullet type wise we call her "solid". She will stay in the keepers pen for now.

Cool, but if you keep her, be absolutely sure to cull anything with a sunken leader, or you will risk setting the DQ in your flock, the same goes for wry tail, and you will spend generations trying to purge it.

 

[ki4got]

I'm fairly convince the chicken camouflage is really a bit of a myth. Chicken hawks find and chase ruffed grouse. There's not a single pattern of domestic chicken plumage that has them fooled.Perhaps the best bet would be the Red Dorking, which possesses the wild chicken pattern. Ultimately they don't have the proper behaviors and movement patterns to make good use of camouflage. They just go marching about; whatever color they are they're seen. The best way I know of to keep down avian predators is to maintain a flock of geese.

actually, regardless of color, i find breed specifics regarding response to prey animals. the dorkings see a hawk or vulture, or even large crows and the roos sound the alarm and everyone's GONE. doesn't matter how tasty their treats are. the cochins were a bit slower to learn, but any chicks that are free ranged early enough learn pretty fast. *knock on wood* most times the roo sounds the alarm, it's not a threat.

 

[greenhorn]

Hey Joe,

Thanks, I'm hoping to get the coop finished within the next couple weeks. Just got the poles set for the front 56 foot wall tonight. The posts for the back wall should go up tomorrow and we should be able to get the concrete poured for all the non corner posts too. Then it's off to the races I hope lol. Can't wait to get the Dorkings over to the new coop! It's going to be so cool to see them enjoying lots of open space.

The birds are growing and looking pretty good. I was also thinking some birds may be a little leggy and some have brownish spots on them. I'm sure we can work that out eventually. The thing is we have whites and some look very nice too. Some of the oldest ones have very nice combs. Not sure but I think that is one of that particular clans strong points?

I still have the birds divided into the same 3 groups they were mailed in. I think there are 4 different clans there. I don't want to cull any birds until they are big enough on this first batch. I don't think we lost any. One bird had what I think was a broken leg but my 14 year old son set it with a stick and some duct tape and it actually made a full recovery.

The first group got moved into a bigger area cause they outgrew their "temporary" coop. Was supposed to be more temporary but we got behind and didn't have the time to build the new coop yet. They are with our 6 ISA brown hens and get along pretty good. The white roosters in that group are bigger than the ISA Brown hens are now too. They have decent space and are growing nicely.

I need to get the new coop finished so the other 2 groups will have more space soon. Have to say we are so happy to have Dorkings on the farm this year.

 

[DaveK]

Here are a couple photos, I'm not sure what your looking for, I hope this helps.







Sassy

These seem to be very much what we all should be looking for. Great Dorking type and breed character. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Hey Joe,

Thanks, I'm hoping to get the coop finished within the next couple weeks. Just got the poles set for the front 56 foot wall tonight. The posts for the back wall should go up tomorrow and we should be able to get the concrete poured for all the non corner posts too. Then it's off to the races I hope lol. Can't wait to get the Dorkings over to the new coop! It's going to be so cool to see them enjoying lots of open space.

The birds are growing and looking pretty good. I was also thinking some birds may be a little leggy and some have brownish spots on them. I'm sure we can work that out eventually. The thing is we have whites and some look very nice too. Some of the oldest ones have very nice combs. Not sure but I think that is one of that particular clans strong points?

I still have the birds divided into the same 3 groups they were mailed in. I think there are 4 different clans there. I don't want to cull any birds until they are big enough on this first batch. I don't think we lost any. One bird had what I think was a broken leg but my 14 year old son set it with a stick and some duct tape and it actually made a full recovery.

The first group got moved into a bigger area cause they outgrew their "temporary" coop. Was supposed to be more temporary but we got behind and didn't have the time to build the new coop yet. They are with our 6 ISA brown hens and get along pretty good. The white roosters in that group are bigger than the ISA Brown hens are now too. They have decent space and are growing nicely.

I need to get the new coop finished so the other 2 groups will have more space soon. Have to say we are so happy to have Dorkings on the farm this year.

Awesome!

Sounds great! and I just read your e-mails. I've been a bit lax, I'm afriad, in responding. But here goes.

Three years ago, I crossed one group of white hens out to SG cocks, and another out to Colored cocks. The former is a safe cross, the latter is more dangerous, hence the bits of brown you are seeing. This is new this year, the Colored gene is trying to make a stand. I have a few, too, that are on the docket for the the weekend after next. The colored gene might also lead to some creaminess, or brassiness, that needs to be avoided, too.

Looking at the original birds, the whites where nice, with fairly stong combs, solid color, a variety typical, if breed atypical, roundedness, good layers, excellent broodies, developing meat qualities. The whites were a little high on the leg.
The SG were just like those seen above, which remind me distinctly of the Murray McMurray hatchery chicks, which have been strengthened via Duane Urch stock infusion over the years. Low to the ground--a strong point, good color, fair size, with, however, an atypical tendency to taper back towards the tail.
The Colored stock was the highest up from the ground, which we're seeing in a fair number of the hatchlings, they were the biggest, though, and have given size to the group. They are going to be the source of some persistent color woes for a while, but that will reduce each year.

The great thing about all of this is that it has provided for an outstandingly high level of vigor, productivity and fertility. The chicks grow and feather well. In short, they possess a strong amount of genetic diverity. Conversely, they possess way too much genetic diversity, and the goal needs to be to bring that back down, to tighten it up, if you would. This is going to take a number of breeding seasons. In the interim, we'll enjoy their excellent farm qualities. You'll find that they're good little layers, delicious eating, excellent broodies, and surpisingly strong foragers. In short, they're eveything a Dorking should be....they're just not yet up to standard snuff.

This last point is why we were hesitant about selling any. We're rude perfectionists, and that aspect of me did not want to release any stock until they were show stoppers. However, there were two factors that influenced our decision to go the other way. I reasoned that it's outstandingly difficult to get hands on Dorking stock, and if we didn't sell any we were then being an augment to the problem as opposed to part of the solution. As it stands, for suppliers of stock there are MMCM SG's (and those now working with them), Sand Hill, Rudy's Reds (and those now working with them), and Whites from us and Ed (and those now working with them). That's not a whole heck of a lot. If enthusiasts are stepping up now in order to commit to the Dorking, then the time to make stock available is now and not in 10 years. So reason one was to be part of supporting the enthusiasm for Dorkings. The second reason, though, to choose to sell was that because of this three way cross, there is an amazing amount of bio-diversity in this stock. If I were to have waited 10 years to tighten it all up and then sell, well then this bio-diversity would have taken only one route, but by selling to other dedicated folk now, then the tightening up of the loose ends will have taken several different directions which will represent a US population of White Dorkings that is actually genetically viable in the long run. If it works, this is ultimately the best for the birds themselves. It ensures that those working with this stock will always have others to whom they can go to get genetic reinforcements, as needed, if needed.

That's a point, though, those working with our stock won't need to outcross for multiple generations. Indeed, if clans are managed well, they shouldn't ever need to, and if we're all still breeding them long enough to need to, it means that White Dorkings have persisted a long time and are probabaly doing much better population-wise then they currently are.

For the immediate time-being, some thoughts:

1. You have a lot of chicks, but you only need a small amount of breeders. The idea is more chicks from fewer hens. Thus, to those who only got 10 from us, then the goal for breeders should be two pairs--no more. There are two cockerels that are better than the other and two pullets that are better than the others and you want to raise the bar. Steve, insofar as you have a strong number, you could choose one cockerel from each of the four clans (toe-punches) and one, or at the most two pullets from each clan, and the rest are culls. You could slaughter them all and/or save the pullets for laying and broodies to foster eggs from your breeders. For multiple seasons, if we're doing this right, we'll all be culling down to a handful of select breeders. It's not about large numbers; it's about controlled breeding programs that maintain clans or, specifically, lineage. Cull ruthlessly!!!!!!!!!
2. Make sure all of your breeder males are entirely white with white legs.
3. In subsequent hatches various color variations are going to creep up. You'll have some females with blue legs; a very few number of chicks may hatch out duckwing patterened; there will be others. Cull them all right away so that temptation doesn't distract. The blue leg factor comes from the outcross to SG. It is overwhelmingly sex linked; the pullets get it. Via selecting breeders with strong white shanks, it has reduced remarkacbly each year. This year, it was very much reduced. I imagine it will be gone in a couple of seasons.
4. The Coloreds were rosecombed, but the SGs were single combed, and there are still single combed brids that hatch. Cull them.
5. Polydactyly--five-toedness--is not perfectly stable. You'll have some chicks with four toes, on one or both feet. You'll have some with six toes. Your have some with two toes nails growing out of the 5th toe. Cull them.
6. We cull for color, comb, and toes at the incubator door. If you're using artificial incubation and brooding then go for it.
7. With broody hens you can load the incubator with the week's eggs from three of clans and slip the eggs from the fourth clan underneath the broody. They will all be ready to hatch at the same time. Hatch the three clans in the incubator in separate trays or in hatching cages made of wire. Collect all of the chicks from the broody hen. Toe punch the four clans according to the basic pattern. Cull out for color, comb and toes, put all of the chicks underneath the broody. Do this at night, and she'll accept them.
8. Outcrossing looses a lot of genetic mutation and potential. This is why breeders tell you not to outcross your birds if at all avoidable. It makes for a lot of culling, I have notcied, though, that it has reduced markedly each year. Be prepared, though, to cull a lot. It's the only way, otherwise you'll find yourself spinning your wheels.
9. Try not to get pulled into the idea of all of the other Dorking color varieties. It is far more myth than fact: Reds, Whites, SGs, Coloreds, everything else is, was, and always will be just an experiement.

I hope this is helpful, and I'm sure we'll chat more about all of these steps and breeding questions. I'm looking forward to see pic's.

Best to you,

Joseph

 

[greenhorn]

Hello Joseph,

Thanks for that extremely informative and detailed response. I think that was the best post I've read here so far.

We have no problem with culling hard especially when it comes to roosters. We will have plenty space for some new hens though, even if they don't make the grade. If they turn out to be broody and/or lay eggs we will keep them for now. Our egg birds are getting old and need to be replaced and the less reliable we are on incubators the better. We have some friends and family who love our farm fresh eggs and it will be great to offer them actual heritage breed eggs soon. I guess when we get better quality hens we can "change them out" in the seasons to come.

When it comes time we can let the best hen/s in with the best roosters though, just like you stated. I plan to keep each clan going.

Self reliance is one of the reasons we selected Dorkings and it's great to hear that we can put them to work right away. We want to use them as real dual purpose utility birds and do all that we can to help achieve birds that meet the standard in all ways. I hope that we may eventually have excellent utility birds that meet the standard or at least come very close. I'm very happy to be part of it and hope that we can accomplish our goals.

I want to keep a back up rooster from each clan just in case but i'll take the rest to the butcher when they are big enough. Thanks big time for the selection guidance also. In the future I'll probably put the culls in a special coop so they don't impede the growth of the higher quality birds. This year we have been in a race to catch up and get the new Dorking breeding facility built. Once that is finished we can use the egg coup for housing larger culls until we build a new one just for beefing up culls before taking them to the butcher. Maybe come spring time we can do that, who knows?....

Here is a picture the wife took yesterday but the front and back wall have now been set.

 

[rtroxel]

Hi all,

Just checking in. I haven't been too active lately. We just had a little baby girl (Olivia Lilly) and I've been busy between jobs getting acclimated to my new responsibilities. With 100+ chicks to move around and a drought for the ages, it has been a summer to remember, for sure. I'm very glad to see many of you still around and raising lots of birds! Congrats to all on the year's hatches and young birds!

As some of you know, I have Roger Tice's line of Reds and this year, I crossed three Red pullets with a Silver male that I got from the Superior Farm line. I hatched about 30 chicks from him and another 50 from his son. I've culled them down to about 30 or so young birds. All are silver, with the males carrying the Red gene (it's fairly visible in the wing on many). At the same time, I was hatching from 3 Silver hens from 2 lines, so I also have some pure Silver males.

Fertility, hatchability, and livability were very good all year, and the adult hens are still laying very well despite the heat. Fertility is still good on the young male (son). I lost the old male, but have quite a few offspring from him still that made the cull.

In any case, the point is that I have decided to focus on the Reds. Which means someone(or someones) could get a pretty nice bunch of birds for great starter flock of SG with a surprising amount of genetic diversity for this rare variety. I'm not asking for a huge amount of money, mostly feed costs and little for next year. Pick-up only, as I have not desire to ship 40 birds...I might be convinced to drive a short distance to help meet someone.

I'm located in NW Indiana only about 25 miles from I-80 or I-65 and just 4 miles from US 30. If you are interested and serious in trying to keep a nice line of SG going, please EMAIL me. PMing is not as easy as email. [email protected]

Thanks!
Rudy

 

[dncarr09]

Does anyone know what causes a prolapsed vent? I had a chick that developed this at 4 days old. I couldn't fix it and I tried really hard but the chick ended up dying. It was one of my SG doking chicks and I only had 3.

 

[Yellow House Farm]

Does anyone know what causes a prolapsed vent? I had a chick that developed this at 4 days old. I couldn't fix it and I tried really hard but the chick ended up dying. It was one of my SG doking chicks and I only had 3.

Every once in a while a weak chick comes. Don't fret over it. For better or for worse it will happen again. It's just part of the game.