Baby chick with eyelid problem

[boskelli1571]

I'm curious, what research is this?

-Kathy

Hi Kathy,
No research in chickens that I know of, but plenty of research done in the nursing field. At around the same time, it was recommended that hydrogen peroxide not be used on open wounds for the same/similar reasons. I'm not aware of any studies that have reversed/changed that line of thought. I'm not a biologist, but logic would seem to dictate that skin in warm blooded mammals would react in similar ways. If you wish, I can spend some time digging up articles for you.......

 

[boskelli1571]

Ack, okay, thank you very much for the tip!!!!

The steps will be:
Soak foot in epsom salt water to soften the tissue
Clean the area with betadine to sterilize (wearing sterile gloves myself)
Remove scab and kernel with scalpel & tweezers
Pack hole with antibiotic ointment
Cover with sterile gauze
Wrap with Vetwrap

am I missing anything?
should I use soap and water on the hole before AB ointment?

Looks good. If you are going to be removing the dressing daily, I would gently soak the foot in warm water, soap only if the area around it is dirty. Good luck on your surgery!

 

[casportpony]

Hi Kathy,
No research in chickens that I know of, but plenty of research done in the nursing field. At around the same time, it was recommended that hydrogen peroxide not be used on open wounds for the same/similar reasons. I'm not aware of any studies that have
Quote: I don't use peroxide, buy I do use betadine and chlorhexidine in mammals and birds, so I would be grateful if in your spare time you could send me some links.

Thanks in advance,
Kathy

 

[Farmer Viola]

Ok. I cut off the scab and then could not see a clear "kernel" beneath it. I started feeling uneasy about this part, and did not want to cut deeply into the foot. Reviewing instructions, it seems that maybe I should cut deep into the foot. Can one of you advise me please?


scab pre-op after soaking


after scab removal. should I cut into foot further?


sitting in her box afterward



chick's eye today. it is stuck in this triangle shape all the time. may be healing incorrectly.

 

[chooks4life]

Today I went into the run and inspected all the wire very carefully. I found an area where there was an edge of chicken wire poking out down at ground level, 2 little spikes were sticking out around a post. I folded it in and secured the wire, now I'm wondering if that might have been the culprit. Chick's eye looked the same today, they ran out of the run when I tried to catch the injured one, will try again later. Going to keep putting the AB ointment daily on it for now, they are all getting garlic and OACV as well.

Sounds likely that you've found the culprit. Every time I think I've finished a cage, I run my hands all over it, anywhere a chick could possibly get (even if someone would have to throw it there, lol...) and so many times I find something spiky that I didn't realize was there. I was so sure, lol! Always. I'm very, very careful when making cages yet there is always some overlooked spike, and they will find it sooner or later.

It very much does look like a wire injury to me, and as you say it does not look like it's healing well. Hopefully the chick will be okay, but, might be worth looking into anything known to soften contracting scar tissues (maybe stuff used for burns, off the top of my head regular vitamin E application will help there).

While I have you here Chooks, I also have another hen with an injury. She is molting first of all, so she looks terrible. Then I noticed her limping and staying in the coop, in a nest box in fact, although she isn't broody and isn't laying eggs. Upon bodily inspection, I found that her right footpad has a bumblefoot sore on it. I separated her in a box with straw, food, and water. She is getting higher protein food for the molt, scrambled egg, oats, and vitamin water. She is quite content to sit in the box and not move at all. She uses her right wing to prop herself when she turns around, not wanting to put weight on the right foot, it must really hurt.

I ordered sterile scalpels from amazon Prime and they arrived today. I also ordered betadine antiseptic solution. I have gauze, AB ointment, and vetwrap per the bumblefoot instructions I've read. Now that I have the scalpel and betadine, I plan to do the bumblefoot surgery today after an epsom salt soak. I have never done it before, but I have read a few threads about it and the chicken chick's how-to page. Just wondering if you have anything extra to add that I should know? I will probably do the surgery this afternoon or evening..

I've also read not to apply Betadine to open wounds for those exact reasons boskelli1571 stated.

As boskelli1571 said, it does make good sense; but plenty of people here do apply Betadine straight to open sores --- then again they also do the same with hydrogen peroxide and other such...

I think it's one of those things, only a problem in a certain percentage of cases or if applied in overdose. I've read conflicting studies on both hydrogen p. and betadine and pretty much every other antiseptic, and the biggest issue seems to be overdose. Most of these antiseptics are best used in quite low dosage, often much lower than what people tend to apply, since many people just slather it on in huge doses (seems to be a bit of the old 'if a little is good, a lot is great' mentality).

I don't know the exact dosages that are best, no first-hand experience with artificial antiseptics, but the studies I've read used very low dosages or reported caustic or healing-retarding effects.

@Kathy - for studies on this, PubMed, MedScape etc all have plenty. As always you can review them and make up your own mind because there are plenty both for and against everything studied. They do seem to universally agree too much of anything is a problem.

I've never done bumblefoot surgery so I don't have any advice there, sorry Viola. Looks like I will be learning this myself soon, probably; I've gotten a hen from the lady with whom my chooks agisted, this hen has two severely 'bumbled' feet (lol) and being in the middle of moving house I'm weighing up trying to treat her naturally versus just going the surgery route. She gets around fine, and I have managed bumblefoot with a natural diet before without a problem, but that was very mild cases in a few hens I'd raised which were otherwise healthy, whereas this hen shows many signs of being a weakly type so I suspect she may need the surgery to be sure.

I'd be using Stockholm tar personally, and a Stanley knife, but good luck with whatever you use. I don't have any decent scalpels yet, and it does seem very difficult for Americans to get hold of good Stockholm tar so your choices there are probably best to use. I don't have any firsthand experience with them. The vetwrap looks awesome, I must get me some of that.

I think that if you haven't dug the kernel out, it will probably recur. I've removed scabs quite a few times on the hens with bumblefoot and in some cases it didn't recur, despite not removing the kernel, but in other cases it did. I guess time will tell. I'm not sure all bumblefoot has a kernel, and it may be inaccessible i.e. buried among structures best not cut into. I've got to do more reading up on this myself, clearly.

Best wishes to you and your chooks.