Baby maran just not 'thriving'

[canesisters]

Ok, I was just standing at the brooder watching them yesterday (I seem to be spending a LOT of time doing that lately) and the tiny little wheaten maran got stepped on and shoved over about a half dozen times. "Humm" I said, "maybe she IS getting picked on so much that she's not eating well."
So I took the hardware cloth cube cage (about 24" cubed) that I use to move them from the brooder to the play pen and set it into the corner of the brooder. I put an extra waterer and the little feeder in there and rigged the light to shine into a corner of it. Tiny little bony Sugar went right to work on the feeder but Hurra was worried that she couldn't play with the big kids. And the big kids went nuts that there was a feeder they couldn't reach. Things finally settled down and I went off to get ready for church.
This morning everyone was still fine ( I've gotten used to the anxious feeling opening the top of the brooder and looking to see if either of the marans has died). The big kids seemed to have forgotten about the tiny marans entirely. Hurra was still a little put out over being grounded and Sugar was cheeping at ear-splitting volume. I gave the big kids a mashed up hard boiled egg with a little oatmeal and some sand I scooped from the driveway and dropped a bowl of yogurt and egg in with the marans. Everyone seemed to enjoy breakfast and since there was only a little bit left, I left the bowls in there for them to finish up.

Should I be able to feel bones? The bigger chicks bodies are all round and firm - I can feel the breast bone and another one down the middle of their abdomen - but everything in between is well filled in. The marans though, especially Sugar, are all bone. Question - could the marans have worms??? I know that mammals are often born with worms, or get them soon after birth. What about birds? Could it be that she's eating plenty but having to share too much with her own 'herd of tiny livestock'?

 

[highpointfarm]

You can feel bones on full grown meat birds, Thats not a prob. Good job giving him his own feeder watere (her?)

 

[ki4got]

i would think that's a bit young to develop any parasitic load. and again, some breeds grow at different rates, so the bones may grow faster than the muscle can keep up. sounds like you're doing things right. i'd say leave them separated and just keep throwing the food to them.

i personally wouldn't give any more sand/gravel tho, since you're not feeding scratch grains. pelleted feeds are 100% digestible without grit/gravel. some chicks can actually over-eat the grit and cause blockages, which will limit the amount of actual food they can process.

i never give my birds grit/gravel, they pick up what they need when the go out on the ground.

i worm all the birds over 2 months of age twice a year, fall and spring. i use ivermectin pour on for cattle now, but also have the injectible (fed orally) for all new birds coming on the property, since i have no way of knowing what's been done. treat them orally first day, and pour on 10 days later. the oral will treat worms and lice, the pour on also catches any stragglers and mites.

like i said, just keep them separated and feeding them all they'll eat. you won't see it immediately but i'm sure you'll see them pick up. and head to ebay and get a scale. that is the surest way to know for sure if they're gaining or staying the same. you can also use an inexpensive food scale but they're not as accurate as a digital one. i love my fishhook scale, and have modified a milk crate to hang under it to put the birds into for weighing. it'll go up to 45 pounds or so, but i measure in grams as that's more accurate IMO.

 

[canesisters]

Thanks yall!
I'm sorry to be such a worry wart about this. I've had dogs, cats and horses for decades. I worked at a vet office for a few years was an EMT for a couple of years too. I'm comfortable dealing with just about everything that I encounter with my furry kids - but these tiny little birds have me a little freaked out.

 

[canesisters]

Update!

Little Bony Sugar was seeming to get weaker and weaker so for the last couple of days, after she's had all she's interested in from her 2x daily porridge of egg/yogurt/chick starter I check her crop to see if it's full and then use a tiny syringe to squirt a little more down. She's getting more active but isn't yet gaining any noticeable weight. I'm on my way tonight to pick up a scale.
Little Hurra is noticeably MUCH heaver than her sister and is seeming to thrive in their little room separate from the 'big kids'.

Everyone had another play day this morning and seemed to really enjoy the sunshine -although the wind kept getting behind them, flipping them over on their heads. LOL

 

[canesisters]

Just posting to keep a record of little Sugar's progress.

I got a food scale yesterday (5/20/12). All the 'big kids' weighed in between 6 and 9 oz. Hurra was 5oz. Sugar was 2oz.
She's as active as Hurra, although she hasn't made the slightest attempt to fly yet. Hurra likes to hop up onto the little perch when I let her out with the big kids and I have to really watch everyone else since they can all make it to the top of the brooder now (24" straight up).
She is eating the porridge well so I've stopped using the syringe to 'top her off'. LOL
I've noticed that her poo is really loose - that might be because the majority of her diet is wet... Today I added a pinch of ground oatmeal and a bit more chick starter so the consistency is more like thick mashed potatoes.

Here she is with her little shot glass of breakfast.


And here's Hurra.

 

[canesisters]

5/23/12 It occurred to me that if I'm posting to track her progress, I probably should've dated the messages. Oh well.

It was suggested that I adjust her mash to: egg yoke/yogurt/chick crumbles and a little soaked cat food to boost the protein/fat content. Maybe I should've made the switch slowly, or maybe she didn't care for the brand of cat food... but she didn't want any part of it. I used the syringe to make her take a little and mixed up the 'original formula' to start off today with. She was reluctant to taste it (could the cat food have really been THAT nasty??) but once I dipped her beak into it, she worked on it the whole time I was cleaning out the brooder this morning.
It's only been a couple of days since I last weighed her but she actually felt bonier today - I can now feel her back bone and ribs. I weighed her again and she's still showing 2oz. I'm beginning to really suspect that there is something way more wrong than just her intake/digestion of food. Do chickens get blood sugar problems like mammals? If she was a puppy or kitten, I'd suspect diabetes. The crazy thing is that she is still as bright and alert as the others. If, while eating her mash, she should fling a tiny bit off to the side she will not only notice the tiny speck appearing on the towel, but will rush over to get it (just in case it might be a bug, I assume).

I had let Hurra join the 'big kids' for a couple of days since she's gotten big enough to not be pushed around too much. But this morning I noticed that her already rumpled appearance was looking scruffier than usual and I saw one of the wynadottes peck her a couple of times so back into the 'baby crib' she went.

If these two little marans make it to hen-hood it will be a miracle.




edited to add:
I just did a search for "failure to thrive" and am slightly alarmed to find that out of the dozens of posts that I read, almost all of them were about maran or maran-x chicks. I'm wondering if this is something common to the breed.. and if so, how did I miss seeing anything about it when I was planning my first bunch of brooder chicks???

 

[erin39]

I have 4 baby chicks born the 15th of May. Three of the chicks are doing great. One is not as active as the rest. She is still eating and drinking, but is not running around like the rest. Is there something I can give her? I've seen some people giving yogurt, egg or oatmeal, would that be good to give her? Do you feed the oatmeal dry or cooked? Thanks for your help, Erin

 

[canesisters]

Hi Erin,
I'm struggling through this myself and am NOT an expert - and my chick is a couple weeks older than yours.

This is what I've learned so far:
Food: I make this mash each morning for my little maran: 2 tablespoons of plain yogurt, a hard boiled egg, a pinch of dry cat food (soaked so that it's mush) and a big pinch of chick starter crumbles.
I run the yogurt/egg/mushy cat food in the food processor so it's smooth then dump into an old jelly jar. At the barn, I put about a tablespoon in a shot glass and sprinkle with the crumbles. I give her about 15mins to work on it (longer if she's still interested) - then let the 'big kids' have at the leftovers. We do this every morning, then when I get home from work, if I can, and then again close to bedtime. I keep crumbles available to her at all times. She's gotten so far behind in size and weight that I keep her separated so the bigger chicks don't stomp on her and shove her away from the food. She's in the brooder but separated in a smaller cage in one corner.

Folks have suggested that instead of the hard boiled egg, I should just use the yolk raw. My bird was NOT impressed with that. I've been told that to increase fat, feed the yolk - to increase protein, feed the white. I feed both.

Folks have suggested that a little dry oatmeal (ground up fine) added to the mash will help to 'dry up' loose poo. However, I feel that if I'm feeding her a large amount of wet food... her poo should be wetter than her sisters who are eating nothing but dry crumbles.

You should search the threads for help with any suspected illness. There are several that affect young chicks and are simple to treat - but that need to be treated quickly. These little guys don't have a whole lot of reserve to battle a long illness. I've been lucky that my little girl doesn't appear to actually be sick... just, well.. stunted (or something).

If she's not had anything other than chick crumbles (not been outside to peck at dirt/sand or been offered chick grit) then limit anything that you feed her to stuff that is wet/soft. Her system doesn't have the ability yet to grind up seeds/grains/bugs.

Do lots of research - ask lots of questions. The folks on BYC are wonderful and will offer any help they can.

 

[lucylover]

Not thriving can definitely become a problem when raising baby chicks! I had this problem not too long ago when raising my little ones. She did end up dying within two days. Symptoms: doesn't eat nearly as much as the others, can't really stand up straight, sits down a lot, cannot walk correctly, doesn't drink near as much as the other chicks, and just doesn't look right and VERY LETHARGIC! None of these are good sings. Your first reaction will be to provide immediate attention and care to the the little guy. DONT! Put some gatorade in a little cup that it can drink if it wants to and put some finely shredded cheese in the food. Do not separate her from the others. If it has pasty butt, leave it alone and DO NOT clean the butt, just let it be. These tips will give your little chick the best chance to survive. All in all, leave it alone from the others and don't pay it any special attention. Best of luck to you!