badly behaved chicken pecking a biting humans

[chooks4life]

Chooks, I dont, haven't, wouldn't and will never abuse an animal, most definitely not my baby chickens, but I cannot and will not allow her to think that drawing blood and coming back for more is a good thing to do. The worst I have ever done to reprimand her is when she had a hold of my finger one day I gently pinched her on the comb thinking it might have the same effect as when the other hens do this to her if she is out of line with them, or to gently shove her out of the way while telling her off.

I wouldn't re home her either as she is fairly old and is a rescue hen, so she's been through enough and settled in her home with the other hens, I don't think it would be fair to move the problem on as such.

The only reason I suggested you rehome her is because it sounded like you thought it was only a behavioral problem, not anything else, in the previous post.

I've dealt with hens like her before, which is why I gave you the suggestions I did; you can't fix that mindset with training alone, because it's based on nutritional deficits. As long as she's looking for food everywhere, and you don't both provide better nutrition and help her learn where to get it and where not to get it, the problem will continue.

Humans with pica are every bit as logical as chickens with pica --- not at all, big brains notwithstanding.

I'm not sure it is as simple as Pica as she's not going round pecking everything in sight, it's mainly pecking at me, my clothing or at other people and she really does need to realise that I'm the boss lady around here.

A common expression of pica is attempting to consume living creatures of non-prey types like humans and other chickens.

Certainly she's not trying to eat your clothing because she's mentally normal, lol, surely you agree with that.

It's an aberrant mentality caused by a lifetime of malnutrition. It's why cannibalism is so common in them, it's all hand in glove. Chances are she's committed cannibalism before, (possibly only on a minor scale like ripping out feathers and eating the blood filled quills) --- which reinforces the behavior --- but when the mind is aberrant, trying to retrain it like it's rational is of course just going to fail, because it's a derangement and they do not respond to reason.

Like Island girl says I can cope with a little cut or a nip or two but the local kids might not be so lucky if she gets a taste for human blood.

She already has a taste for blood. Only helping her nutritionally is going to settle her rampant cravings. Training will help keep her at a distance but won't stop the cravings, and won't make her stop looking for fresh nutrients.

You will have to keep the kids away from her if you want them safe, that much was already obvious. In the long term to make her safer more than just training will be needed.

Island girl is talking about retraining chickens with bad social manners, not dealing with chickens with pica, it's not the same thing at all.

My girl does love me, she is the first to come running up to see me when I open the house door and often just lies at my feet and purrs, but maybe that's part of the issue, maybe she needs to realise where she is in the pecking order around here.

At no part in a normal chicken hierarchy is drawing blood by biting and attempting to consume one another a normal behavior. They do not naturally behave like that, it's NOT dominance behavior at all.

The comment about abuse was intended to refer to the fact that you can quite literally abuse an animal and it still won't change a non-rational behavior, whereas abusing an animal can change deliberate behaviors because it will be far more likely to connect cause and effect.

At no point did I say anyone was abusing chickens, lol, and obviously it should go without saying that I don't condone such behavior.

All I meant is that applying logical training to an illogical behavior is obviously unlikely to work, because it's not the same as applying training to a deliberate behavior.

I personally don't believe in trying to take the dominant chicken role, because I'm not a chicken, and my chooks respect humans as being automatically dominant without it ever needing to be physically enforced, which I believe is the natural state of things, but each to their own; I know not everyone shares that belief.

x2 on not placing food anywhere on the body to teach them NOT to peck you. That seems extremely counter-productive. Chickens are not dogs and methods that work well for one may not work for the other.

While it may seem counterproductive to you, I've dealt with numerous hens with pica, and the methods I mentioned worked in practice.

Chickens can be trained much the same way dogs, sheep, horses, etc... I've done it before, so while you don't think it will work, I know from experience that it will.

They are absolutely smarter than they get credit for.

I agree; but you cannot train an animal out of malnutrition nor mental derangement.

Best wishes.

 

[Xtineart]

right that's it. I've had just about enough of her. She's getting worse, maybe it's cos she's moulting and grumpy but it really doesnt appear to be simple pica. she knows exactly what she is doing. She's trying to state her authority over me, the way she does with a lesser hen. I noticed her going in to bully my littlest girl today, all head pecks and long pauses while she clearly thought about what she was doing. I stopped her by gently moving her away and she turned and aimed more than few hard pecks at me instead. and when I tried to shoo her away she came straight back, reared up as tall as she could and aimed to peck me again. I dont want to have to physically reprimand her but she knows exactly what she is doing, and this is not about food or sussing out what she can eat. She's a total horror.

 

[lazy gardener]

If she were in my flock, I'd invite her to dinner... but I wouldn't bother to set out a chair for her.

 

[Xtineart]

ha ha LG yanno the thought had crossed my mind. I wonder if the hen rescue centre would accept returns>?? lordy she's annoying

 

[islandgirl82]

I was thinking the same thing. Though I am sorry to hear her behavior is getting worse instead of improving.

 

[chooks4life]

right that's it. I've had just about enough of her. She's getting worse, maybe it's cos she's moulting and grumpy but it really doesnt appear to be simple pica. she knows exactly what she is doing. She's trying to state her authority over me, the way she does with a lesser hen. I noticed her going in to bully my littlest girl today, all head pecks and long pauses while she clearly thought about what she was doing. I stopped her by gently moving her away and she turned and aimed more than few hard pecks at me instead. and when I tried to shoo her away she came straight back, reared up as tall as she could and aimed to peck me again. I dont want to have to physically reprimand her but she knows exactly what she is doing, and this is not about food or sussing out what she can eat. She's a total horror.

She does sound like a little rotter, as well, but when you described her jumping up and biting at clothes, etc, before, that's not dominance displays at all. That's the sort of random BS pica inspires. Pica is rarely 'simple'. It's never resolved in the time frame you've given her, but to be fair, it's very unlikely to ever be resolved under any circumstances, and she will suffer lifelong impacts due to it, and culling her is likely kindest for all involved. Harsh but true. The damage is done long before the animal shows symptoms and she's not likely to be rehabilitated. I know you don't think this is pica, but I'm very experienced with it in a few species and this sounds typical.

The long pauses where she seems to think about what she's doing is not what it seems at all. She's running a faulty program, to use a metaphor; a hen who is completely sure of what she's doing does not stop. Something kept prompting her to stop. Then the next step failed, she didn't divert into other behaviors, and went back to attacking instead. That's known as a stereotypy, a neurotic behavior, not a normal healthy one.

That sort of disjointed and confused behavior is another thing very common in these sorts of hens, they lack complete instinct in any area and often do seem to suffer brain freezes, just standing there for a long time. Trying to think, I think is a better description of it. They are not actually mentally well, the breeding and environment the breed is developed under is at fault. You shouldn't blame yourself for inability to fix her, most hens like this I spent years working with and most can't be helped. One thing pica sufferers generally have in abundance is stupidity, and aggression, those are both common results of brain damage from any cause, whether malnutrition or otherwise.

She sure does sound like she has a very aggressive mentality, that's common in these hens, and is linked with pica though of course it is now just a hereditary feature of many of their characters, even if you raise them on a perfect diet they're now just likely to be like this, it's the breed's standardized temperament.

You breed more aggression into any breed by overconfinement and overcrowding and undernutrition, which are the exact conditions this breed was developed under. Pica is a fact of life for most of them and generationally, it's shaped their average character.

Sorry it didn't work out, rehoming or culling does sound like your only options.

Best wishes.

 

[topdog24]

She does sound like a little rotter, as well, but when you described her jumping up and biting at clothes, etc, before, that's not dominance displays at all. That's the sort of random BS pica inspires. Pica is rarely 'simple'. It's never resolved in the time frame you've given her, but to be fair, it's very unlikely to ever be resolved under any circumstances, and she will suffer lifelong impacts due to it, and culling her is likely kindest for all involved. Harsh but true. The damage is done long before the animal shows symptoms and she's not likely to be rehabilitated. I know you don't think this is pica, but I'm very experienced with it in a few species and this sounds typical.

The long pauses where she seems to think about what she's doing is not what it seems at all. She's running a faulty program, to use a metaphor; a hen who is completely sure of what she's doing does not stop. Something kept prompting her to stop. Then the next step failed, she didn't divert into other behaviors, and went back to attacking instead. That's known as a stereotypy, a neurotic behavior, not a normal healthy one.

That sort of disjointed and confused behavior is another thing very common in these sorts of hens, they lack complete instinct in any area and often do seem to suffer brain freezes, just standing there for a long time. Trying to think, I think is a better description of it. They are not actually mentally well, the breeding and environment the breed is developed under is at fault. You shouldn't blame yourself for inability to fix her, most hens like this I spent years working with and most can't be helped. One thing pica sufferers generally have in abundance is stupidity, and aggression, those are both common results of brain damage from any cause, whether malnutrition or otherwise.

She sure does sound like she has a very aggressive mentality, that's common in these hens, and is linked with pica though of course it is now just a hereditary feature of many of their characters, even if you raise them on a perfect diet they're now just likely to be like this, it's the breed's standardized temperament.

You breed more aggression into any breed by overconfinement and overcrowding and undernutrition, which are the exact conditions this breed was developed under. Pica is a fact of life for most of them and generationally, it's shaped their average character.

Sorry it didn't work out, rehoming or culling does sound like your only options.

Best wishes.

What color shoes are you wearing around her, always remember NOT to wear red, orange, pink, or shoes with shiny objects on them, this automatically puts some chickens in attack mode, always wear solid colored clothes and grey , brown or tan with no markings are the best, never, ever wear flip flops or other shoes that expose your toes, especially if you paint your toe nails.

 

[chooks4life]

What color shoes are you wearing around her, always remember NOT to wear red, orange, pink, or shoes with shiny objects on them, this automatically puts all chickens in attack mode, always wear solid colored clothes and grey , brown or tan with no markings are the best, never, ever wear flip flops or other shoes that expose your toes, especially if you paint your toe nails.

... I think you've mistaken me for the OP.

I don't have aggressive chickens, I culled them out ages ago; it's amazing how heritable it is.

I understand it's true for you, but I disagree with the line of yours I put in bold: it's only true for some chickens.

Not all chickens are aggressive, and those that aren't don't give a fig what color shoes you're wearing or whether or not you're wearing shiny things.

Cannibalism, feather picking, bullying, pica, excessive noisiness, these are all heritable traits that not all chickens have, and you can breed it out of (or into) any given line of chooks. They are not traits inherent to the species, they're artificially introduced under bad husbandry methods maintained for sufficient generations.

The fact that this hen was showing trust and affection to begin with and jumping up to peck are a few major signs it's not a simple dominance issue, though she also sounds like she's aggressive.

Anyway, to the OP: you don't believe it's pica whereas I do, this much is obvious; I accept your belief on this even though I believe differently.

If the rescue place is any good they will take back the hen, since she now needs rescuing again. If you choose to cull her instead, hope that goes smoothly for you and her, and hope you don't beat yourself up about it too much, sometimes it's the best thing to do.

Best wishes.

 

[Xtineart]

she wont be culled, no way, though I feel awful for thinking she's the hen I'd miss least of all my girls, and you are absolutely wrong in saying she was initially nice then turned bitey, she was a proper scared rescue who wouldn't come anywhere near a human before, and after months of gettting her used to humans and the outdoors she is now both bitey and my best friend. She follows me about relentlessly and wants to sit beside me and purr to show how happy she is, but will then peck for no apparent reason, though she often looks as though she is concentrating on it first. Sometimes it's my wrist, or my ankle, or she'll tug at my clothes. Colour is not an issue, she does like shiny things, but then that makes sense, bugs are shiny!. I dont own any bright clothing TBH and I'm most often in my uggs or my wellies when I go out. I just cant get my head around her as she behaves like this regardless of whether she is hungry or not, I've sometimes thrown her fave foods down for her and still she'll bite me or the others and ignore the food. She is very noisy/shouty but isnt a feather picker or the bully or top hen, and she is well fed (though she wont eat runny/wet things, so fermented food gets ignored or spat out)

 

[chooks4life]

She is the happiest beastie and often sits with me and just purrs her wee heart out which is lovely to see, but I really need to get the biting under control.

:S This is the behavior I was referring to, which you're now saying is 'absolutely wrong' --- confusing! I never said she 'then turned bitey' --- you made it clear from the outset that she was biting also, combined behavior, not one or the other.

Anyway, good luck with her. If you experiment and find something that works, I'm sure there's many in your position that would love to know how that turns out. This is a very common pattern of behavior for these hens.

Best wishes.