badly behaved chicken pecking a biting humans

[topdog24]

... I think you've mistaken me for the OP.

I don't have aggressive chickens, I culled them out ages ago; it's amazing how heritable it is.

I understand it's true for you, but I disagree with the line of yours I put in bold: it's only true for some chickens.

Not all chickens are aggressive, and those that aren't don't give a fig what color shoes you're wearing or whether or not you're wearing shiny things.

Cannibalism, feather picking, bullying, pica, excessive noisiness, these are all heritable traits that not all chickens have, and you can breed it out of (or into) any given line of chooks. They are not traits inherent to the species, they're artificially introduced under bad husbandry methods maintained for sufficient generations.

The fact that this hen was showing trust and affection to begin with and jumping up to peck are a few major signs it's not a simple dominance issue, though she also sounds like she's aggressive.

Anyway, to the OP: you don't believe it's pica whereas I do, this much is obvious; I accept your belief on this even though I believe differently.

If the rescue place is any good they will take back the hen, since she now needs rescuing again. If you choose to cull her instead, hope that goes smoothly for you and her, and hope you don't beat yourself up about it too much, sometimes it's the best thing to do.

Best wishes.

Your point is well taken and I should have stated some chickens and not all chickens, after all, I have some that are more aggressive than others and some you can not break the habit because of their breeding, such as some locally hatched chicks I have, I had to cull 4 roosters that were overly aggressive towards each other and my hens, One of 5 were none aggressive and he is the soul flock leader although I have other breeds, they have their own flock and are somewhat aggressive, I also had some Black Australorps that never fit in to the flock, they caused havoc 24/7,the were not aggressive to humans but they were pure torment to the flock, I gave them time and worked with them for many months, I finally harvested them, what a difference, within 3 days ,egg production nearly doubled, I may try them later on because I love the breed, but they wont be hatchery chicks next time. I have some that are always in my face for attention, they squat anytime I get near them and some approach me and squat and if I don't pick them up and move on, they will run and get in front of me and squat, repeating this till I pick them up.

 

[Xtineart]

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The fact that this hen was showing trust and affection to begin with and jumping up to peck are a few major signs it's not a simple dominance issue, though she also sounds like she's aggressive.

sorry, but this statement is what I was referring to as wrong, she wasn't affectionate at first then biting as in terms of long term behaviour. What she is doing is a strange combination of both, as she gets more affectionate she gets closer contact and that's when she bites.

she's been very good today and letting me lift/carry/sit with her without any of her bad behaviour. lets hope she's finally turned a corner.

 

[Xtineart]

added: she came in later on this afternoon and was so good. Really, really good. playing the crouch down to get lifted game and not being remotely bitey or badly behaved. Please let this continue

 

[donrae]

Animals physically discipline each other all the time. My alpha mare bites/kicks my omega mare when she doens't get out of the way fast enough. Does omega fear alpha? No, she takes every chance to love up on her. She does respect her, and gets out of the way, but she's not afraid of her. My old farmdog snarls/growls/bites my puppy, pins her down and makes her cry. Does the puppy fear the old dog? Nope, as soon as he lets her up she's fawning all over him, trying to get him to play with her. It's a respect thing and in the animal world, that's how it's done. There's no time-out

There's a big difference between fear and respect, and she has no respect for you. She's been running the show, and you need to change that. Interaction has been on her terms, it needs to be on yours. She's not stupid, or socially impaired, she's simply the boss of you.

Don't allow this chicken close enough to you or your littles to peck you. Make her maintain a physical distance. Being close to you is something you determine, not her. When she gets close enough to peck, chase her off a little. I'm not talking run her over an acre, just a stomp or two in her direction. Don't pick her up. Don't hand feed her treats. This is simple alpha behavior, nothing that's going to make her fear you. If she does get close enough to peck, make a huge fuss, chase her or pin her down, then spend a few minutes focusing on her not coming close to you.

Watch your flock, how the birds interact with each other. You're practicing the same principles.

 

[Xtineart]

you know what I think I'm getting somewhere with her. I've been ignoring the little bugger for the past few days instead of hand feeding her or pandering to her and she's not pecked or bitten once. Today I left the back door open and went in the house to work, she saw the door open and started wailing for attention as normal, tehn realised that I wasnt coming out, I stayed sitting in the house, looking at my computer, not at her. So in she came, closer and closer, louder and louder ''pay me attention NOW, human person....MEEEE'' and still I ignored her, even tually she walked right up to my feet turned around and squatted down with her wings held up in the classic 'lift me' pose. So I took some pity on her and lifted her on my knee for a moment, she quieted right down, barely made a sound and sat perfectly still, not a peck or a flap. After 5 minutes I put her back down and off she went, happy as got out. Wee thing, that was all she wanted before she trotted back outside.

Donrae I think you are right, it possibly was a respect thing? maybe this is the breakthrough to her I needed.

fingers crossed x

 

[chooks4life]

Your point is well taken and I should have stated some chickens and not all chickens, after all, I have some that are more aggressive than others and some you can not break the habit because of their breeding, such as some locally hatched chicks I have, I had to cull 4 roosters that were overly aggressive towards each other and my hens, One of 5 were none aggressive and he is the soul flock leader although I have other breeds, they have their own flock and are somewhat aggressive, I also had some Black Australorps that never fit in to the flock, they caused havoc 24/7,the were not aggressive to humans but they were pure torment to the flock, I gave them time and worked with them for many months, I finally harvested them, what a difference, within 3 days ,egg production nearly doubled, I may try them later on because I love the breed, but they wont be hatchery chicks next time. I have some that are always in my face for attention, they squat anytime I get near them and some approach me and squat and if I don't pick them up and move on, they will run and get in front of me and squat, repeating this till I pick them up.

My experiences have been very much the same. Not worth keeping animals that stress others, it really does impact profitability/productivity.

Sounds like some of your hens think you're a rooster and they're propositioning you; typical behavior for AI bred types. Naturally enough they tend to be aggressive to people too, since they view people as being the same species (after all, as far as they understand, we're mating with them and parenting them). That sort thinks humans are part of the chicken hierarchy, lol...

For these reasons in particular I don't believe in AI as a mainstay of the reproductive program for any species not in danger of extinction. Sexual interactions with humans and animals confuse them rapidly, until they can begin passing on incorrect mating instincts and behaviors, after all it's one of the most important instincts... So if they perceive (rightly or wrongly) that they've successfully reproduced, the particulars of the situation under which they achieved their life purpose are emblazoned in their little minds to be passed on to the next generations for the sake of the species.

Repeat that enough times, while artificially carrying out the aspects of reproduction they were meant to handle, do that for enough generations, and you get animals that are sexually imprinted on humans... I.e., hens that squat for people. They're not asking to be picked up, or for 'scratches under the wings' as so many people think; most roosters actually stand on their wings, not their backs, that's why they're holding out their wings while squatting. It's a sexual invitation.

Best wishes.

sorry, but this statement is what I was referring to as wrong, she wasn't affectionate at first then biting as in terms of long term behaviour. What she is doing is a strange combination of both, as she gets more affectionate she gets closer contact and that's when she bites.

I never said she was ONLY showing trust and affection to begin with, that seems to be the impression you've got though; to begin with, in the very first post, you mention both her aggression and affection, so that was never unclear. Hope this makes things clearer.

she's been very good today and letting me lift/carry/sit with her without any of her bad behaviour. lets hope she's finally turned a corner.

Hope so. Good luck with her.

Watch your flock, how the birds interact with each other. You're practicing the same principles.

I disagree with your post there, but with respect; I know what's true for some isn't true for all. What you've written is certainly not correct according to my experiences but I'm sure it's correct going by your experiences otherwise you wouldn't have written it, no doubt!

I don't believe in acting like a chicken to get respect from chickens, but if that works for you, and the OP, good luck with it. I'm sure that if, unlike me, you choose to keep chickens that are confused enough to think humans are part of their social order, you have little other option than to act like a chicken.

Problem is, the hierarchy is always changing; if you're part of it, then guaranteed, your subordinates are always keeping a keen eye out for their chance to depose you as alpha.

If you're respected as being outside of the hierarchy, as you should be as far as I'm concerned, you don't have to do anything whatsoever to gain or enforce respect, and your role is never up for the forcible taking.

My chooks don't require physical dominance on my part in order to respect humans, which I think is important because disabled or very young humans can be unable to 'act right' to get respect from chickens, leading to certain types of mentalities attacking them because they were only subdued by dominant behavior, not truly respectful in absence of such behavior.

But, easy for me to say, I culled out all the species-confused chickens that attempted to mate with or attack humans, and the problem has not surfaced in all the years since then, because it's so heritable. It's really just an aberrant mentality, and you may not think it's a sign of lack of intelligence but again I disagree, in my experience that's exactly what it is.

Each to their own I guess.

Best wishes.

 

[islandgirl82]

you know what I think I'm getting somewhere with her. I've been ignoring the little bugger for the past few days instead of hand feeding her or pandering to her and she's not pecked or bitten once. Today I left the back door open and went in the house to work, she saw the door open and started wailing for attention as normal, tehn realised that I wasnt coming out, I stayed sitting in the house, looking at my computer, not at her. So in she came, closer and closer, louder and louder ''pay me attention NOW, human person....MEEEE'' and still I ignored her, even tually she walked right up to my feet turned around and squatted down with her wings held up in the classic 'lift me' pose. So I took some pity on her and lifted her on my knee for a moment, she quieted right down, barely made a sound and sat perfectly still, not a peck or a flap. After 5 minutes I put her back down and off she went, happy as got out. Wee thing, that was all she wanted before she trotted back outside.

Donrae I think you are right, it possibly was a respect thing? maybe this is the breakthrough to her I needed.

fingers crossed x

Sounds like maybe she was a cat in a past life

 

[Xtineart]

she very much IS a cat chicken. It really appears as though it's attention seeking over everything else. Maybe in some ways I agree with you chooks about her thinking I'm roo, but also fail to see why it's a problem provided I keep her from being vicious or nasty and get her to stick to loving on me. I completely understand the crouch down thing, I'm not daft, but as she's never met a roo in her wee life, and wont ever get the chance to meet one is is such a problem if she gets a bit of a thrill from being lifetd and cuddeld by a human instead? She's not going to be passing on any genetics and I couldn't care about her being productive, she eggs every day but I'm well aware that as a 3 year old ex-commercial she is way past her productive days, she's her as retiree and pet, noting else.
With due respect to you I understand why culling out would be important in a commercial operation but not for 3 back yard scruffy pets. The biggest issue I had with her was her biteyness, and it is starting to look as though maybe positioning myself as roo and head of her chicken-cat-human life it's not such a bad thing. She even managed to eat some bits of chopped grape out of my hand today without a single bite or a misplaced peck, as I'd made a point of ignoring her for ages first then only giving in to her when it was clear I was ready to do so.

I've never disagreed with you on her intelligence, she's a daft wee thing and probably still learning what a human is after her years crammed into a factory farm floor. She's never been loved up on before, and I know she needs work, that's what I'm here for.

 

[islandgirl82]

Well, I really hope you've figured out a sure way to work with her! As for cuddling her, I don't see why that's a problem as long as it's on YOUR terms and not hers.

 

[chooks4life]

Maybe in some ways I agree with you chooks about her thinking I'm roo, but also fail to see why it's a problem provided I keep her from being vicious or nasty and get her to stick to loving on me. I completely understand the crouch down thing, I'm not daft, but as she's never met a roo in her wee life, and wont ever get the chance to meet one is is such a problem if she gets a bit of a thrill from being lifetd and cuddeld by a human instead? She's not going to be passing on any genetics and I couldn't care about her being productive, she eggs every day but I'm well aware that as a 3 year old ex-commercial she is way past her productive days, she's her as retiree and pet, noting else.

No, I don't see any serious problems in you keeping hens with aberrant mentalities or not, except for the obvious risk in being part of the chicken hierarchy... You generally can't always keep her being nice to you because they're not always nice to one another, being the problem with that. But good luck with her, you can probably manage it one way or another.

Rescuing animals is a good thing in my book, I'm not about to condemn someone for that, lol.

With due respect to you I understand why culling out would be important in a commercial operation but not for 3 back yard scruffy pets. The biggest issue I had with her was her biteyness, and it is starting to look as though maybe positioning myself as roo and head of her chicken-cat-human life it's not such a bad thing. She even managed to eat some bits of chopped grape out of my hand today without a single bite or a misplaced peck, as I'd made a point of ignoring her for ages first then only giving in to her when it was clear I was ready to do so.

I've never disagreed with you on her intelligence, she's a daft wee thing and probably still learning what a human is after her years crammed into a factory farm floor. She's never been loved up on before, and I know she needs work, that's what I'm here for.

Looks like some of my response to you got mixed together with some of my response to someone else or discussion of other viewpoints, I did generalize all over the place a bit, lol...

Hope things go well with you guys. Best wishes.