My opinion? if you hatched a group of eggs and some looked OK while some appear to be crossed, better to get rid of the whole lot of them. You can't be sure that the birds you have will ever breed true. That is probably the case with the person you bought the eggs from. They may actually think they are breeding Barnevelder to barnevelder but reall one of their birds has been crossed somewhere along the way. Now the offspring produced are inconsistent, some "looking" true to breed while others look "way off", and sometimes the eggs are from the same birds. Part ofa purebred is the ability to breed true Everytime....jmo
Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed
- Thread starter Bluehenhatchery.com
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- Mar 21, 2009
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Very good point, relics, and I have been thinking that as well. The only reason I would consider keeping them would be because Barnevelders are so hard to come by. If I were to locate a decent number of better quality Barnevelders, then I would certainly not use these at all other than in my utility flock. I just don't know if decent Barnevelders even really exist in the US. I have Barnevelders from 3 different sources and none of them are really great quality. In the US, this breed needs work almost like none other. I also am not a person that is opposed to outcrossing, but I am opposed to haphazardly outcrossing to another breed without a specific goal in mind and a plan to get the line back to breeding true as quickly as possible. Outcrossing can be a great tool if done responsibly. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the Barnevelders that look like Welsummers are the result of the breeder(s) attempting to improve egg color by crossing to Welsummers. I am not saying that I would do that, but I could see how someone could have the idea to do it.
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()relics :
My opinion? if you hatched a group of eggs and some looked OK while some appear to be crossed, better to get rid of the whole lot of them. You can't be sure that the birds you have will ever breed true. That is probably the case with the person you bought the eggs from. They may actually think they are breeding Barnevelder to barnevelder but reall one of their birds has been crossed somewhere along the way. Now the offspring produced are inconsistent, some "looking" true to breed while others look "way off", and sometimes the eggs are from the same birds. Part ofa purebred is the ability to breed true Everytime....jmo
Agreed!!!!!
Very well said relics!
My opinion? if you hatched a group of eggs and some looked OK while some appear to be crossed, better to get rid of the whole lot of them. You can't be sure that the birds you have will ever breed true. That is probably the case with the person you bought the eggs from. They may actually think they are breeding Barnevelder to barnevelder but reall one of their birds has been crossed somewhere along the way. Now the offspring produced are inconsistent, some "looking" true to breed while others look "way off", and sometimes the eggs are from the same birds. Part ofa purebred is the ability to breed true Everytime....jmo
Agreed!!!!!
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I'm pretty much a HUGE lurker on this thread and rarely comment but I just have to let you all know how much I appreciate your insights.
This is exactly what has happened and IMO is very sad because unknowingly people purchase these crossed birds and then turn around and re-sell them as pure Barnevelders. I too have shipped in eggs from 4 different breeders and only one line was pure and I know it is because of the quality of the birds and they are true to type and color, but they are also the birds that I purchased as hatching eggs directly from Johan himself. The other 3 lines have all been crossed with Welsummers and they came from very reputable breeders, but are certainly not pure Barnevelders.
True Barnies are out there in this country and some of those dedicated folks are right here on BYC, it just takes a little research and fortitude to find them. There's so little info on these birds that I feel newcomers to the breed are mislead and truly don't know the issues out there with them and are duped sometimes unknowingly buy the seller because info on true Barnies just isn't that easy to come by, so how can we expect folks to know the difference from a cross and a pure. I think this thread is a fabulous learning tool for those people who are looking into them simply because of folks like yourself, relics and tls that are willing to openly discuss them and the issues at hand for all to learn.
Thanks everyone for your contributions on this breed, I have learned so much from lurking here.
I'm pretty much a HUGE lurker on this thread and rarely comment but I just have to let you all know how much I appreciate your insights.
This is exactly what has happened and IMO is very sad because unknowingly people purchase these crossed birds and then turn around and re-sell them as pure Barnevelders. I too have shipped in eggs from 4 different breeders and only one line was pure and I know it is because of the quality of the birds and they are true to type and color, but they are also the birds that I purchased as hatching eggs directly from Johan himself. The other 3 lines have all been crossed with Welsummers and they came from very reputable breeders, but are certainly not pure Barnevelders.
True Barnies are out there in this country and some of those dedicated folks are right here on BYC, it just takes a little research and fortitude to find them. There's so little info on these birds that I feel newcomers to the breed are mislead and truly don't know the issues out there with them and are duped sometimes unknowingly buy the seller because info on true Barnies just isn't that easy to come by, so how can we expect folks to know the difference from a cross and a pure. I think this thread is a fabulous learning tool for those people who are looking into them simply because of folks like yourself, relics and tls that are willing to openly discuss them and the issues at hand for all to learn.
Thanks everyone for your contributions on this breed, I have learned so much from lurking here.
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how great to get such a nice egg! how old are your POL Barnies? My two Barnies are just under 22 weeks, and the combs and wattles are just starting to develop. I expect it will be at least another month before I see an egg. What do you think?
They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
If they don't start, they may wait until spring.
how great to get such a nice egg! how old are your POL Barnies? My two Barnies are just under 22 weeks, and the combs and wattles are just starting to develop. I expect it will be at least another month before I see an egg. What do you think?
They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
Quote:
how great to get such a nice egg! how old are your POL Barnies? My two Barnies are just under 22 weeks, and the combs and wattles are just starting to develop. I expect it will be at least another month before I see an egg. What do you think?
They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
If they don't start, they may wait until spring.
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
how great to get such a nice egg! how old are your POL Barnies? My two Barnies are just under 22 weeks, and the combs and wattles are just starting to develop. I expect it will be at least another month before I see an egg. What do you think?
They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
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This is what happened to me. I was given some Barnies from a friend, who was told they were supposedly from 'exhibition' lines. Came to find out they are mixed with Welsummer. I'd already sold eggs to a few people before finding out the truth, so am now trying to do damage control. Fortunately, I think the people who bought from me only wanted layers, but still. Very frustrating
This is what happened to me. I was given some Barnies from a friend, who was told they were supposedly from 'exhibition' lines. Came to find out they are mixed with Welsummer. I'd already sold eggs to a few people before finding out the truth, so am now trying to do damage control. Fortunately, I think the people who bought from me only wanted layers, but still. Very frustrating
Yes but you have done the right thing by letting these folks know. I'm sure there are many that have and didn't know and to be out that money that was invested. It is very frustrating. I hear ya!
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They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
If they don't start, they may wait until spring.
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
Last year the pullets I hatched in March all had started laying by Oct/Nov without added light and kept going until temps reached well over 100. But, it just seems like weird fall to me. Maybe California's weather this year is just feeling a bit "off" to me. I'm
that they do start laying before spring. Keeping a pullet for nearly a whole year without eggs seems wrong. In the interest of egg production, I think I would cull any that don't start laying. Besides they are suppost to be good winter layers.
They were hatched the begining of March. About 1/2 are laying at this point. I hope the others start up soon because I don't have lights in my coop.
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
Last year the pullets I hatched in March all had started laying by Oct/Nov without added light and kept going until temps reached well over 100. But, it just seems like weird fall to me. Maybe California's weather this year is just feeling a bit "off" to me. I'm
Quote:
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
Last year the pullets I hatched in March all had started laying by Oct/Nov without added light and kept going until temps reached well over 100. But, it just seems like weird fall to me. Maybe California's weather this year is just feeling a bit "off" to me. I'm
that they do start laying before spring. Keeping a pullet for nearly a whole year without eggs seems wrong. In the interest of egg production, I think I would cull any that don't start laying. Besides they are suppost to be good winter layers.
my birds are a full month younger than yours this year. I would love it if they started laying before 2011, but understand that they might not. I'm quite curious as to what the egg color will be. I bought these birds as started pullets 10 weeks ago. they are hatchery barnevelders, but look truer to type than some of the birds being sold as barnevelders that are clearly a cross of some sort.
yes, our weather has been strange this year. we've had about two weeks of real summer, and it didn't happen until fall.
summer was pretty easy on the birds. but I think it confused them, too. my buff orpingtons started their molt far too early. I hope it will all sort itself out.
sounds like mine may wait until spring, too. they were hatched in late April. I'm avoiding too much light in the coop this year. I have the capacity, but would prefer they all go through the natural slow-down of winter. I'm liking the idea of extending their natural laying life.
Last year the pullets I hatched in March all had started laying by Oct/Nov without added light and kept going until temps reached well over 100. But, it just seems like weird fall to me. Maybe California's weather this year is just feeling a bit "off" to me. I'm
my birds are a full month younger than yours this year. I would love it if they started laying before 2011, but understand that they might not. I'm quite curious as to what the egg color will be. I bought these birds as started pullets 10 weeks ago. they are hatchery barnevelders, but look truer to type than some of the birds being sold as barnevelders that are clearly a cross of some sort.
yes, our weather has been strange this year. we've had about two weeks of real summer, and it didn't happen until fall.
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