Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[Anniebee]

So sorry for your loss!

I know it is upsetting....I've had it happen to me and it really is upsetting! You may never know why.....I had a roo drop dead like that too! He was out with his hens and we were working in the yard....One minute I saw him scratching for bugs and the next I saw him dead on the ground! We just assumed it was his heart and the heat.

To chickenman : I had a beautiful Barnevelder hen - she laid lovely eggs, and stopped in April ( the Australian Autumn ). She shed a few feathers, and I presumed she was going into another moult like the others are ( after a late horrid heat summer moult they all had ). She ate well, drank her water but was aloof from the other chickens. I again ( presumed ) that she was having a bit of a hard time with the moulting. I watched her carefully. Was out with the chickens many times a day and especially to see if she ate treats offered. She always did with great enthusiasm, and that was about the only thing that got her to move from her aloof position. She didn't move far in the last two weeks, except to eat - and drink water. So I figured she was ok ... except for her seeming lack of energy. How wrong I was. She lost condition rapidly ... and we will never know what it was that killed her. They had been wormed and powdered for mites.

One morning she was listless, and by 2 pm she had died. Just like that. I have to think she had some inherited weakness. She was purchased from a hatchery ( along with my other birds who are all very well at this point ) ... the hatchery has an excellent reputation in Victoria, Australia. But then, one never knows what a chicken might inherit, or have wrong with them at any given time, unless investigated by a chicken Vet expert. Unfortunately for my Milly - it was all too late for any chicken expert intervention..

I was shocked and saddened by her sudden death, but have been assured by many ( here and on other sites ) that this can happen to chickens for who knows what reason. I feel sad for your loss, I know how that feels now.


Cheers ............ AB

 

[Dr Bjorn Netland]

Sadly, sudden deaths are not unheard of in the chicken flock. With Barnevelders, however, I always suspect Marek's, and some birds may make it through their first year and then fall victims to it, even when vaccinated. One poultry vet told me that they may have to be revaccinated in order to stave off that dreaded disease. It was the challenges of Marek's disease (along with the introduction of high-yielding brown egg laying breeds from the US) that led to the demise of the Barnevelders in the Netherlands during the early '30s, according to one Dutch article I read. High susceptibility to Marek's is also a major issue with some of our (U.S.) white Leghorn show strains and Cochins, but the Barnevelders were the ones that had almost no resistance to it in my experience.

 

[Tailfeathers]

Quote:
I've experienced the "sudden death" thing too. And not just with Barnies. Though I think the first time I experienced it, it was with a Barnie rooster. Never thought at the time about doing a necropsy. Another time it was with a Buckeye hen who died right after a rooster mounted her. Come to find out she was egg bound. Both may have been from a heart attack.

But wrt to the listlessness and "seeming lack of energy", I would suspect Lymphoid Leucosis (LL). I've done necropsies on birds who showed similar symptoms and in both cases it was LL.

A necropsy will also reveal Mareks. The tumors will likely be easily seen. I have experienced no problems with Mareks in my Barnies and I haven't medicated my birds in years.

Lastly, wrt to being "investigated by a chicken Vet expert", I would agree in general. Especially since many of the various maladies a chicken can get often display the same symptoms. Having said that, the best bird I've found is called "The Chicken Health Handbook" by Gail Damerow. It's well worth the price.

God Bless,

 

[pysankigirl]

Sadly, sudden deaths are not unheard of in the chicken flock. With Barnevelders, however, I always suspect Marek's, and some birds may make it through their first year and then fall victims to it, even when vaccinated. One poultry vet told me that they may have to be revaccinated in order to stave off that dreaded disease. It was the challenges of Marek's disease (along with the introduction of high-yielding brown egg laying breeds from the US) that led to the demise of the Barnevelders in the Netherlands during the early '30s, according to one Dutch article I read. High susceptibility to Marek's is also a major issue with some of our (U.S.) white Leghorn show strains and Cochins, but the Barnevelders were the ones that had almost no resistance to it in my experience.

I have heard this before.

unfortunately, I may be soon either proving or disproving this fact with my current line of barnies. I just got the prelim report back on some Dorkings that died unexpectedly and they think it is Mareks. (will find out in a few days from the biopsy of the tumors.) my Barnevelders have been fine and it is the Dorkings that seem to have been the ones affected. The guy I got my Barnevelders from raised them from birds he originally got from Lowell Barber about 10 years ago in a closed flock. I can only hope he's been breeding for resistance.

head --> desk

 

[Anniebee]

I've experienced the "sudden death" thing too. And not just with Barnies. Though I think the first time I experienced it, it was with a Barnie rooster. Never thought at the time about doing a necropsy. Another time it was with a Buckeye hen who died right after a rooster mounted her. Come to find out she was egg bound. Both may have been from a heart attack.

But wrt to the listlessness and "seeming lack of energy", I would suspect Lymphoid Leucosis (LL). I've done necropsies on birds who showed similar symptoms and in both cases it was LL.

A necropsy will also reveal Mareks. The tumors will likely be easily seen. I have experienced no problems with Mareks in my Barnies and I haven't medicated my birds in years.

Lastly, wrt to being "investigated by a chicken Vet expert", I would agree in general. Especially since many of the various maladies a chicken can get often display the same symptoms. Having said that, the best bird I've found is called "The Chicken Health Handbook" by Gail Damerow. It's well worth the price.

God Bless,

Thanks Tailfeathers for your input here, and valuable advice. I have now spent an hour+ looking up Lymphoid Leucosis, and in every one of them I read that they mostly have enlarged abdomens, ( she didn't have that ) ... they go off their food - ( Milly ate in the morning of her death even though she was looking listless ) ... and at the end - they drop green diarrhoea ... ( she DID have that ). You can imagine my confusion when she continued to eat and drink well, virtually right to the end. It was about mid-day when she 'nested' on the grass, and was not bothering to go scratch around in the garden for goodies. 2 hours later she was gone.


I have also read ( gulp ) ... that hens can shed this virus into eggs ? We ate her eggs up until late Autumn ... we have not had any bad side effects from eating our chickens eggs ! But that alarmed me somewhat. If it was LL - ( and we will never know - she is deep buried way away from the coop ) ... then she most likely has had it all her life - she was approx. 9 months old when she died. I am now hoping my other 3 chickens don't get anything. I am finding the keeping of chickens to be not as easy as I first thought ! Rats are always a problem where there are chickens, and I have stopped them getting in ... but I wonder about the effect of rats / rats faeces on hens AND their eggs. One never knows when and where the little devils might be - mainly night time raiders but ....

I will look up the book you suggested, on Amazon.

Anyway, one can only hope I guess - and wait and see.

Thanks again,
Cheers...... AB

 

[ChickNmamma]

Quote:

for the best.

 

[faykokoWV]

I'm glad to have this topic brought up. I've had lots of problems in the past with Barnevelders dropping dead suddenly. So much so, that I actually put a warning on my website advising people not to buy them if they aren't prepared for this. the lines I currently have appear to be heartier then any that I've had in the past and I've only lost one over the last year. I've talked to several breeders in my area and it seemed to be a common problem here. It tends to happen here mostly in the summer months when there is high humidity. We thought maybe it was the hot/damp combo that was causing issues, but that doesn't seem to be the case in your death. I've never had one die in the winter, which is when you think they would be at their weakest.

I'm interested to see if the Blue Barnevelders suffer from this at all, or if the out crossing helps to improve the heartiness of the stock.

 

[Anniebee]

for the best.

Originally Posted by Dr Bjorn Netland

Sadly, sudden deaths are not unheard of in the chicken flock. With Barnevelders, however, I always suspect Marek's, and some birds may make it through their first year and then fall victims to it, even when vaccinated. One poultry vet told me that they may have to be revaccinated in order to stave off that dreaded disease. It was the challenges of Marek's disease (along with the introduction of high-yielding brown egg laying breeds from the US) that led to the demise of the Barnevelders in the Netherlands during the early '30s, according to one Dutch article I read. High susceptibility to Marek's is also a major issue with some of our (U.S.) white Leghorn show strains and Cochins, but the Barnevelders were the ones that had almost no resistance to it in my experience.

*******

Originally Posted by pysankigirl

I have heard this before.

unfortunately, I may be soon either proving or disproving this fact with my current line of barnies. I just got the prelim report back on some Dorkings that died unexpectedly and they think it is Mareks. (will find out in a few days from the biopsy of the tumors.) my Barnevelders have been fine and it is the Dorkings that seem to have been the ones affected. The guy I got my Barnevelders from raised them from birds he originally got from Lowell Barber about 10 years ago in a closed flock. I can only hope he's been breeding for resistance.

*********
From : faykokWV

I'm glad to have this topic brought up. I've had lots of problems in the past with Barnevelders dropping dead suddenly. So much so, that I actually put a warning on my website advising people not to buy them if they aren't prepared for this. the lines I currently have appear to be heartier then any that I've had in the past and I've only lost one over the last year. I've talked to several breeders in my area and it seemed to be a common problem here. It tends to happen here mostly in the summer months when there is high humidity. We thought maybe it was the hot/damp combo that was causing issues, but that doesn't seem to be the case in your death. I've never had one die in the winter, which is when you think they would be at their weakest.

I'm interested to see if the Blue Barnevelders suffer from this at all, or if the out crossing helps to improve the heartiness of the stock.


*******

My reply : While this is a Barnevelder improvement forum ... I have to say that when breeding animals / birds,
the PRIMARY consideration has to be the improvement of health and strength over and above all else.
Improvement of resistance to disease, to deformities, to weakness and to virility.
I have bred Golden Retrievers and have had other GR's for many years.
The Golden Retriever Club of Victoria ( Australia ) strives earnestly to improve the health and constitution of these beautlful dogs -
over and above anything else. Some breeders still breed for LOOKS, but they are largely frowned upon now.

I have recently lost a Barnevelder myself - for whatever reason ( I suspect she carried
something from her hen [ or maybe pullet ] mother, and it eventually got her at 9 months of age. )
She was from a well regarded breeder of chickens - and the same people I got my Welsummer and RIR from.
They are full of vigor and ok as I write. She may have fallen to Mareks or LL - we will never know as she is buried deep
away from the coop now and was not autopsied ( no necropsy performed ).

The object of this improvement movement for Barnevelders has to be health and constitution first and foremost - THEN
you can talk about breeding for egg colour, feather lacing, leg colour, breast colour in
cockerels, and anything else that is 'cosmetic'.
Because, after all - the colours on a chicken are in fact cosmetic ... they don't denote the health of a chicken - EVER.

Just had to put my opinions to paper. Barnies are absolutely beautiful chickens - gentle and productive ...
but if the Barnie is continuing to suffer from sudden deaths, and vertically induced 'nasties' - a new approach has to be made ( I would think ).

Cheers to everyone .... and I hope whoever reads this, and has Barnevelders, that their flock remains in good condition.

AB. ​

 

[Frizzle13]

please give me some opinions on my 2.5 week old barnie chick. also any ideas on the gender.

 

[pysankigirl]

I have given a lot of thought to chicken diseases and overall bird health the last week or so waiting for the biopsy to come back on some birds I got necropsied that probably died of Mareks.

Mareks is a disease that the ag department says is everywhere and really don’t care about the disease at all because there is a vaccination for it that the poultry industry uses. The unfortunate truth is that the vaccine does not cure the disease…just makes the bird asymptomatic and protects against tumor growth. So the birds can still have the disease and be carriers. The vaccine is also not packaged in doses convenient for the backyard poultry enthusiast. It comes in 1000 bird doses. You have to give the vaccine at hatch and it loses its viability after an hour. So if you want to utilize your broodies or small incubators to hatch then you will be wasting a lot of the vaccine. (You can split it into quarters but that is still 250 doses!!!)

And there is some thought that when you use the vaccine, you have no idea which birds have a natural resistance to the disease and are stronger and should be bred, assuming that a resistance can be bred to this disease.

So in mulling over this, I honestly believe that if you are a backyard owner with a dozen laying hens but not intending to breed, that getting vaccinated birds might be prudent. But if you are trying to improve the strength inherent in the breed, vaccinating will mask the problem, not solve it.

I am not a breeder. Just mulling it over. Nothing I am stating here is new wisdom…I am just redisseminating what I have heard elsewhere and your mileage may vary.