Barnevelder breeders lets work together and improve the breed

[RachaelS]

Quote:
Interesting, will go check that out. They are a fascinating bird!

 

[tls_ranch]

To each their own, I stick with what the we (Dutch) have in mind for the Barnevelder and that view has always been the same from day one. Off course everyone has their own right and opinion as to what to do with their Barnevelders and so different quality birds are found in different parts of the country. Mine rarely go broody, but off course you can never say never. I have had older hens go broody, but I would never try to specifically select for it. You can end up with a notoriously broody line of birds. Incubators work pretty good! The ulitlity strains you are talking about did not look like anything, they were very inconsistent and had all different colors and many were even feather legged. After the Langshan did its job, the sop was written and very quickly the birds had to be bred to the written standard if it wanted to have any future as its own breed. The type and color became consistent and much like what we see today. Piet

Piet, What do you think of this article? Is there anything that stands out as incorrect information to you? It seems to cover a lot of history of the Barmevelder.

http://www.aviculture-europe.nl/nummers/13E01A03.pdf

One more question! please. What is the current Dutch weight standard for cocks? 3 kg or 3.5 kg? I have seen both mentioned. The APA standard is 7 lbs or just over 3 kg.

Trisha

 

[Piet]

The article is rather confusing to me. In the prior two years before the 100 yr anniversary and Europa show of Barnevelders held in Barneveld, a group of experts put together everything about the Barnevelder. With research and genetic info collected over the last 25 years. One breeder who was very much of help also had the best double laced Barnevelder at the Europa show and total 8 of his birds were in the top ten. Everything that the BBA publishes is directly from the horses mouth and is up to date with the Barnevelder nowadays. We are seeing different things pop up and are better able to read the roosters now and so much was not available before all this came together. The History on the BBA site is in short and correct, provided by the Barnevelder club in Holland.

Dutch standard: rooster 3-3.5 kg and hen 2.5-2.75 kg, APA standard is the same! History is history, we now have a Barnevelder that is a very high in demand showbird in Europe. They turn heads everywhere and even people who do not know anything about chickens, they do know the Barnevelder. The clubs in Germany and Holland have the most supporters and very many breeders and judges work together and have club shows, meetings, powerpoint presentations etc.

That bring me back to the reason I piped up about the double laced blue over here. For example, when Bert created the silver double laced in Holland, he had silver double laced already in the F2, but he took another 7 years to perfect them before presenting them for recognition. No one else had them, they were his work. After they became easily recognized and standardized in 2009, they were spread out because now they had a written standard to breed toward and they were a very complete and true breeding variety. The Germans bought a lot of them and they went to England also, 2 years later, the Germans had them also recognized. Now 5 years later, silver double laced bantams are winning shows, they are that good. The large fowl silver double laced became recognized at the Europa show. In Holland alone there are around 300 breeders working on them and showing. That helps a lot.
The double lace blue is present in the USA in large quantaties is seems. It should be fairly easy to get 5 breeders showing them for at least 5 years. But you need to have a written standard to go by and have it present at shows. Then 50 birds must be presented after that and if they are proven to breed true and meet the standard, they can be in the APA book. How nice would that be and would that not add value to the breed? But in order to move forward with something like that, one must be able to cull hard and have a plan in place with goals. Not sell chicks as you do not know how they turn out as the one you sell may just be the one you need.

All the breeds that do well at APA shows and are very close to the SOP, have very good breed clubs and many serious breeders that show and breed to sop. Those breeders we can thank afterward for keeping pure strains of birds after we wreck ours by just guessing matching partners or picking just one male per year over a large flock, or even worse..out crossing to other breeds.

I might as well add the serious errors specific Barnevelder that place birds to the bottom of the row immediately in Europe and probably here also:

Too narrow birds
not enough depth of body.
Long flat and sloping back
course or too large head gear (comb,wattles)
Dark cast on legs
White in Earlobes
Not enough tailcoverts (must cover all main tail feathers)
Cushions or pilows on hens

plus all general defect obviously like stubs, shafting, sidesprings, duckfoot etc.

Piet

 

[Piet]

Starting to come together, much more work then I anticipated. We will keep on trucking! Obviously, we are still under construction, but you can see the beginning.
Thanks for looking. Piet
http://www.barnevelderbreeders.com/

 

[DeannaA]

At what age can you start to see the difference between male and female?

 

[RachaelS]

At what age can you start to see the difference between male and female?

In some you can tell at hatch, boys have white chest, girls have gray. Other than that when their chest feathers come in (around 4-6 weeks), in some breeds the boys will have solid black chest, girls have lacing. Sometimes it is when they crow or lay eggs

. Post some pics and I bet they can tell you pretty quick what you have

!

 

[memphis]

Piet...just finished reading thru the Barnevelders Breeders site. Loved the history page, especially Mr. Klomp! Great start on the site!

 

[DeannaA]

In some you can tell at hatch, boys have white chest, girls have gray. Other than than when their chest feathers come in (around 4-6 weeks), in some breeds the boys will have solid black chest, girls have lacing. Sometimes it is when they crow or lay eggs

. Post some pics and I bet they can tell you pretty quick what you have

!

I've been trying to get pictures of them. They won't hold still long enough. I will keep trying.

 

[Piet]

Piet...just finished reading thru the Barnevelders Breeders site. Loved the history page, especially Mr. Klomp! Great start on the site!

Thank you very much! Piet

 

[mountainvieworchards]

To each their own, I stick with what the we (Dutch) have in mind for the Barnevelder and that view has always been the same from day one. Off course everyone has their own right and opinion as to what to do with their Barnevelders and so different quality birds are found in different parts of the country.

Thanks Piet for the good posts. We appreciate getting some new blood in this thread. In your case your past of working in Netherlands with Barnevelders gives you insight we don't have in North America. I was curious about your sticking with the Dutch idea of the Barnevelder, especially when it comes to the male breast, which as I understand is different than the APA SOP for the male Barnevelder which asks for lacing on the breast.

As far as broody hens, there are several lines in the USA some of which are pretty broody (Ledford's line from Missouri is one), but the Johan line has never been broody at least in my birds. I personally have mixed feelings about broody hens. I typically will not breed from a bird that is known to be broody, but if I have a broody I will use her to set. I had a sussex that only went broody the first time in her fourth year, maybe her production fell so much she figured she could contribute to the cause by setting. There is something deeply pleasing to me in seeing animals being animals, setting eggs and rearing young in the hedgerow is certainly in that realm. Also many people like the Barnevelder for its purpose as a homestead bird and broodiness fits in well with this. Since broody raised chicks are great foragers and are hawk-wise from day 1. Sure this cuts down on egg production but most show breeders are not breeding for egg production, otherwise they would be trap nesting or otherwise counting eggs over a long period. I can tell from the relatively lower production on my Barnevelders that they are not the first choice of someone who is interested in egg production. But like you rightly said, to each his/her own.

I look forward to more of your posts. I would like to see pics of some of your eggs to if you have them.

Andy