I use the glass pans... but today I made a french loaf, for garlic bread and made the whole batch on my pizza stone. So, it looked like an artisan bread, more than a regular loaf. Don't even try to make bread for slicing without adding gluten. You will just be disappointed, IMO. I think I probably made 10 loaves before I was completely satisfied, so don't give up. And don't forget, warm bread is always delicious- so the learning curve isn't too hard to handle!