besides GMOs why corn free?

[OneMountainAcres]

Yellow corn has long been a source of vitamin A and carbohydrates. White corn is deficient in vitamin A. Many substitutes for yellow corn do not contain the vitamin A yellow corn contains. I have used nothing but organic rations for the last  6 years. My problem with soy-free feeds is that substitutes such as canola meal are lacking the superior protein profile of soy. In addition, those of us who have studied University feed trials or supplemented diets of our own birds over time will see that animal protein additions to diet are necessary for health. Casein protein, found in milk, has been the superior animal protein in all feed trials I've examined. It has also proven to be a deterrent to enteritis in moderate amounts. I am suspicious of non-GMO feeds that are not labeled organic. If the product is labeled organic, it should not contain GMO in the first place.

that's why I'm making sure we get organic. I don't want any risk of GMOs at all. As for Soy, I don't like it at all since it drains the environment of minerals in its production and is not a natural type food that chickens would eat on its own (is actually poisonous raw)

I found their shipping to be a Lot Less than the feed I was getting. I live in CA and the shipping for scratch and peck was 13.00 and some cents but my other feeds shipping was 37.00! The shipping was more than the feed with my other organic so I know what you mean. I'm saving by switching over. Sadly they do NOT sell a good organic in my town that I can find. Only thing I see is costco organic and it's soy based. So im giving the scratch and peck a try now.

The shipping want even all that ridiculous for us. It cost us about $38 for a 25 lb bag including shipping to get it here. The mill I'm getting our feed from is an organic farmer who just recently started up his mill. It's a couple hour drive from here but to be able to drive a couple hours and pick up a couple hundred pounds of feed at once for like $22 / 50 lb bag, I can't pass that opportunity up.

So basically the general consensus is that corn in the feed isn't really bad, especially if it's definitely organic and therefore non GMO.

 

[Michael Apple]

that's why I'm making sure we get organic. I don't want any risk of GMOs at all. As for Soy, I don't like it at all since it drains the environment of minerals in its production and is not a natural type food that chickens would eat on its own (is actually poisonous raw)

Any crop that is grown draws nutrients from the soil. That is why farmers rotate crops and amend soils. Chickens are omnivorous, so they'll eat many things, including soy. There's never been any such thing as raw soy in any formulated poultry feed. The game of marketing soy-free feeds is conveniently done by companies due to the rise in cost of soy, which has been steadily rising since this article was published 10 years ago, not because they want to find a more nutritious alternative:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/169/alternatives-to-soybean-meal

 

[OneMountainAcres]

Any crop that is grown draws nutrients from the soil. That is why farmers rotate crops and amend soils. Chickens are omnivorous, so they'll eat many things, including soy. There's never been any such thing as raw soy in any formulated poultry feed. The game of marketing soy-free feeds is conveniently done by companies due to the rise in cost of soy, which has been steadily rising since this article was published 10 years ago, not because they want to find a more nutritious alternative:
http://www.thepoultrysite.com/articles/169/alternatives-to-soybean-meal

I know all crops drain nutrients from the soil but soy beans are in such high demand that some places (I believe Brazil) they've had to plant soybeans year after year in the same spot. I don't have the article to cite it but I read before that it is ravaging the land there but farmers can't afford to grow anything else. I also know that they do not put raw soy in feeds but that is another thing I don't like about it. If it has to be cooked before it can be used then it's not natural enough IMO to be in the food. If chickens we're wild, they wouldn't be roasting soybeans to eat them.

 

[Michael Apple]

If it has to be cooked before it can be used then it's not natural enough IMO to be in the food. If chickens we're wild, they wouldn't be roasting soybeans to eat them.

It isn't natural to pen chickens or build coops for them either, but we do for a number of reasons. We brood in house versus outside with a hen to avoid mortality, which isn't natural. We feed them, which isn't natural since they would find food in the wild. You won't see a chicken suckling from a cow's teat for milk, but milk is a highly beneficial and digestible protein for chickens. Many other examples would be self explanatory so I won't go on. If you can prove to me that canola meal, peanuts, and sunflower used as a replacement in many soy-free rations has better amino acid profile than organic soy, I'd be willing to discuss it further.

 

[wholehearted]

Yellow corn has long been a source of vitamin A and carbohydrates. White corn is deficient in vitamin A. Many substitutes for yellow corn do not contain the vitamin A yellow corn contains. I have used nothing but organic rations for the last 6 years. My problem with soy-free feeds is that substitutes such as canola meal are lacking the superior protein profile of soy. In addition, those of us who have studied University feed trials or supplemented diets of our own birds over time will see that animal protein additions to diet are necessary for health. Casein protein, found in milk, has been the superior animal protein in all feed trials I've examined. It has also proven to be a deterrent to enteritis in moderate amounts. I am suspicious of non-GMO feeds that are not labeled organic. If the product is labeled organic, it should not contain GMO in the first place.

Whether or not soy has a great protein profile, there are some (myself included) who feel that it has detrimental health effects. I have identified negative effects on my own health from the use of soy. In my opinion, it is possible to produce a well-rounded and healthy chicken feed without it, so I've chosen to limit my exposure by eliminating it from my flock's diet. I prefer to use a feed that has a diversity of ingredients to provide a wide array of vitamins, minerals, amino acids, etc. I'm not sure of the reasons that people choose not to use corn, but I think it is always a great thing to diversify and not rely too heavily on any one grain.

Why are you suspicious of non-GMO feeds that are not organic? You are correct that organic should equal non-GMO, but the reverse is not necessarily true. A product can indeed be non-GMO but not organic according to USDA standards.

 

[Michael Apple]

Why are you suspicious of non-GMO feeds that are not organic? You are correct that organic should equal non-GMO, but the reverse is not necessarily true. A product can indeed be non-GMO but not organic according to USDA standards.

That is because GMO cannot be labeled organic. The whole idea behind "organic" labeling is to not only avoid the ingestion of herbicides and pesticides, but to avoid glysophate in the vascular system of GMO grains and vegetables. What I stated about soy in feeds still stands scientifically based upon numerous feed trials performed, and the reason it is being conveniently eliminated from certain rations labeled "soy free" is not because they have a better replacement, it is because of the steady rising price of soy. I'd be more concerned about the ethoxyquin and pollution of water fish meal may contain than organic soy. Anyone can do the research outside of Mother Earth News and find that information to be true.

 

[OneMountainAcres]

It isn't natural to pen chickens or build coops for them either, but we do for a number of reasons. We brood in house versus outside with a hen  to avoid mortality, which isn't natural. We feed them, which isn't natural since they would find food in the wild. You won't see a chicken suckling from a cow's teat for milk, but milk is a highly beneficial and digestible protein for chickens. Many other examples would be self explanatory so I won't go on. If you can prove to me that canola meal, peanuts, and sunflower used as a replacement in many soy-free rations has better amino acid profile than organic soy, I'd be willing to discuss it further.

I'm not here to argue with you, to each his own. I'm simply stating my reasoning for avoiding soy. The whole topic of this thread was is there a good reason for avoiding corn in feeds, which it seems there really isn't if the feed is organic. The soy thing is already a done deal for us. We personally are choosing not to use it.

 

[wholehearted]

That is because GMO cannot be labeled organic. The whole idea behind "organic" labeling is to not only avoid the ingestion of herbicides and pesticides, but to avoid glysophate in the vascular system of GMO grains and vegetables. What I stated about soy in feeds still stands scientifically based upon numerous feed trials performed, and the reason it is being conveniently eliminated from certain rations labeled "soy free" is not because they have a better replacement, it is because of the steady rising price of soy. I'd be more concerned about the ethoxyquin and pollution of water fish meal may contain than organic soy. Anyone can do the research outside of Mother Earth News and find that information to be true.

I still don't see exactly what you're saying about the suspicion of non-GMO products that are not organic, but I do understand what organic means.

Honestly, I disagree that people are choosing to produce or use soy-free feed primarily due to price, but I have no problem with anyone that chooses to use a feed with soy either. If it was about lower price, my chickens would eat soy every day of the week. Everyone has to do their own research and make an informed decision. For me, soy produces very specific negative effects on my health. If that is not the case for you, that is great!

I'm not here to argue with you, to each his own. I'm simply stating my reasoning for avoiding soy. The whole topic of this thread was is there a good reason for avoiding corn in feeds, which it seems there really isn't if the feed is organic.

It was a great question! Sorry if I have contributed to this thread going on a rabbit trail.

The soy thing is already a done deal for us. We personally are choosing not to use it.

My chickens have done very well on non-soy feed! They are happy and healthy and I can feel great about eating the eggs they produce for us!

 

[OneMountainAcres]

It was a great question!  Sorry if I have contributed to this thread going on a rabbit trail. 

  My chickens have done very well on non-soy feed!  They are happy and healthy and I can feel great about eating the eggs they produce for us! 

Lol, a good debate is great every now and then but sometimes.... lol
I'm really looking forward to good and healthy eggs I eat 2 eggs every morning for breakfast and my daughter has recently started joining me in that habit. I just can't wait until we can have our own home grown eggs. Still have a while to go since our babies are only 3 weeks old but I'm excited for the day when we don't have to eat the store bought junk anymore

 

[wholehearted]

Lol, a good debate is great every now and then but sometimes.... lol
I'm really looking forward to good and healthy eggs

I eat 2 eggs every morning for breakfast and my daughter has recently started joining me in that habit. I just can't wait until we can have our own home grown eggs. Still have a while to go since our babies are only 3 weeks old but I'm excited for the day when we don't have to eat the store bought junk anymore

Having fresh eggs is wonderful! Right now, I am missing it as I am actually in the waiting stages too...we moved this past year and had to leave our old flock and coop behind. We are now settled into a new house and our new chicks are two weeks old now.