Best dual purpose breed by experience:

[Smuvers Farm]

What is your goal?

Your title suggests "dual purpose" which means for meat and eggs. Typically eating the young roosters and using the hens for laying with possibility of stewing an older hen at retirement (although I'm not personally a fan of stewed older hens...too gamey for me).

If that is what you mean, then in my opinion the best dual purpose breed is the Buckeye.

Second would be the New Hampshire (good breeder quality).

Wyandottes would be my 3rd choice.

Buckeyes are my favorite as the young roosters come to table weight at approximately 5 pounds in about 16 to 18 weeks, depending upon how you feed them (specialized for meat...22% protein... or generalized 18% with other breeds). That means you don't waste feed on roosters you don't want, waiting for them to come to table. I even processed at 15 weeks (family event forced an earlier processing date) and still got a smaller but decent enough carcass. Good meat. Tender. Plenty of breast. A bit longer in the leg than what you see in the store.

If you get from good lines, Buckeye hens are decent layers. The breed is friendly and pleasant. They tend to blend well with other breeds. Not the bottom of the pecking order but not the top either. Very, very curious birds. They tend to be under foot when you are out in the yard trying to see what you are doing. I enjoyed having them, and actually was a bit sorry to process the roosters as they were so nice.

Buckeyes can be harder to locate if you are away from the Ohio area, but I've seen a number in the feed store. I bought hatching eggs online, so I had breeder quality rather than hatchery quality. (I would have stayed with Buckeyes if I remained dual, but I focused more on egg color, so went a different direction).

My second choice would be New Hampshires. Preferably from breeder as the hatchery is more of a Production Red rather than a true New Hampshire.

New Hampshires are also good dual purpose. They are more slow growing than the Buckeyes, so you will have to wait until at least 24 weeks before the roosters are ready to process. The hens lay well and tend to lay very large eggs. Again, if from a good line, they are very pleasant birds but some can be more aggressive.

My Wyandottes would have been good dual, though they too mature more slowly, which means you have to feed those roos longer. They lay decently. I don't find their feed conversion rate as economical as the Buckeye or New Hampshire though.

I'm not a fan of Buff Orpingtons, but I've only had several (three I think) different batches from the hatchery. They were fat, lazy, snotty. Didn't lay well. Ate a lot.
Large enough to eat at about average maturity (20 to 22 weeks) to even faster than average (though those batches were not heavier but more influenced by commercial laying lines). If they are more of the commercial laying type, they lay pretty well, though not as prolific as your ISAs. If they are more dual type, they lay sporadically. I was not happy with their feed conversion...ate too much for what they produced.

I've not had them yet, but I do know Brahmas are nice big birds, lay decently, but take a long time to mature. Consider 6 to 8 months before maturity. That means you've got a lot of feed before those roos are to table.

I'm not a fan of RIR's from hatcheries. Great laying machines. So so carcass. Nasty temperaments. Very, very noisy.

Barred Rocks, in my opinion, make for a better layer than meat, though you could get smaller carcasses. Hens lay well with good feed conversion. Roosters mature quickly but have not been my heavier carcasses.

Anytime you focus more on meat production, egg production will suffer. The goal is a bird that lays decently while producing a decent carcass without eating too much nor taking too long to get to table.

If you want eggs, prolifically, and don't care about meat, stick with the Red Stars/Sexlinks/ISA's.

If you want meat abundantly and quickly, stick with the Cornish Cross and focus on bringing them to table quickly. (I suggest separate pen from your layers).

Just my experiences.
LofMc

Your info on Buckeyes was very detailed and helped me out quite a bit. Was leaning towards Buckeyes for a SSF, and this cemented it!

 

[Redhead Rae]

I've gone several different directions. Here are the breeds I have and my experience with them.

• Dominique and Dominique crosses - They are decent sized birds and they are great for producing sexlink chicks (solid color roo over Dom hen gives you black pullets and barred cockerels). I only have experience with purebred hens. They have a little bit of a fiesty personality, but the crosses seem to take on the other breed's traits. My Dom/buff hens are mild mannered and friendly. My Dom/RIR rooster was a terror (he went to freezer camp), the hen of this mix is bossy and mean.
• Buff Orpington (hatchery quality) - The roosters were scrawny with not enough meat. Out of 16 roosters, there was only one I decided to keep because he wasn't rough on the hens, too mean to other roosters, or people aggressive. The hens are looking like they will be broody, which is a trait I want to breed for.
• Black Cochin (standard size) - I only have a rooster and he is very skittish around people, but is great with hens and gets along well with other roosters. I've hatched chicks from him and am very pleased so far. I'm considering getting Standard Blue Cochins this coming year so I can have blue, black and splash cochins in my flock.
• New Hampshire (Hatchery, Cackle) - I love these birds, they are personable without being bossy or pushy, they have pretty good temperaments all around. Some of the roosters get mean with other roosters, but that is what culling is good for. The carcass is good at 13-14 weeks or later.
• Delaware (from a breeder) - This breed is big and has a good carcass, however, in my experience, they are pushy, bossy, and demanding. They tend to bite me if I'm not quick enough delivering treats.
• Dark Cornish (from a breeder) - I'm very pleased with this breed so far, although I've only had them a month. I am interested to see how well the carcasses of their progeny dress out. They are not good layers.

This year I want to try:

• Doing the Indian River Broiler cross (Delaware roo over New Hampshire hens) to see how the carcasses dress out
• Doing a reverse Indian River Broiler cross (New Hampshire roo over Delaware hens) to produce Red Sex Links. Pullets will be layers, Roos will be dinner.
• Pure Dark Cornish
• I want to get ahold of some White Cornish eggs to hatch since they dress out more cleanly.
• Homemade Cornish crosses with the breeds I have.
• I want to get some colored egg layers, just because
• I want to get some dark egg layers, just because
• Breeding broody mutt birds

One thing to note, I aggressively cull roosters for temperament. I have a young son and can't have a rooster attacking him. If they show any signs of human aggression, they go to freezer camp. I would rather have a rooster that gives me space and is afraid of people than a people oriented one that can attack. I also cull roosters for chicken aggression, within reason as some fighting is to be expected.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

What's your opinion on crossing some of these breeds for a dual purpose "breed" that stays on our farm?

Which breeds were you referring? Your original, or the ones I listed?

If of your original, from comments posted after my post, I think you want a dual purpose, calm bird, that lays decently.

You could cross the Wyandotte with the Barred Rock. Keep a Wyandotte male (I suggest a solid, medium color, such as a red) and place him over Barred Rock hens, you will get sex links. Girls will be black with red bleed through. Males will be single barred (black chicks with white head dot).

Wyandotte will bring in some heavier carcass while the Barred will boost the egg laying somewhat. You *tend* to get the middle of the road, but genetics can work differently, so you'll see variety. Because these birds are not that stepped away from each other, but somewhat middle of the road already, you should have steadier results.

Either the Wyandottes or the Barreds do well in runs and are not really aggressive birds (though it varies with the Barred males).

You will also get rose combed birds which winter better as rose comb is dominant over the Barred single comb.

However, subsequent generations, you'll end up with black chicks both genders with some gold/red bleed through (depending on the color of Wyandotte roo). If you breed from a WY/BR mix male, as he will be single barred, you get 50% barred and 50% unbarred both genders. So, sex linking will only work that first generation with a pure Wyandotte rooster and a pure Barred Rock hen.

The other thought is to choose a better quality RIR and breed with the Wyandotte. You'll get red rose combed, heavier RIR looking birds, both genders. *Should* be better tempered, although my Wyandottes were not super friendly, so you will risk some snotty behaviors in this line depending on the birds you use.

Many breeders use RIR to throw into their lines to improve egg production.

If you are referring to my breeds, I would get the Buckeye and breed with a good RIR to boost egg production, then line breed back to the Buckeye qualities. They pretty much are a dual purpose already, just not always good layers. Buckeye are not known for brooding, but if you plan to use an incubator, no worries.

Having a brooding hen and good production is counter goals. Hens that brood don't lay eggs.

Of those breeds, the Wyandotte has been a good mother, but is not generally a frequent brooder.

Barred Rocks have gone broody, and been good mothers, but commercial lines have pretty well been bred out.

Interestingly, I've had a number of Black Sex Link, commercial quality, go broody. So have a number of my friends.

RIR, hatchery quality, rarely go broody as they are prolific layers and are really Production Reds from the hatcheries.

Brahmas go broody, but they are so big and heavy they tend to crush their eggs and chicks. They are also harder to breed as their body fluff interferes with fertlization.

Orpingtons, if the right line, can be very broody and good mothers. My commercial lines never ever went broody. Orpingtons are also fluffier in the bum which can interfere with fertilty.

So if you want of the breeds you mentioned, for a long term sustainable, I would breed Wyandotte to Barred Rock, choosing the best qualities each generation. Mixes often become broody, especially if you've got a broody gal who broods chicks. Those chicks tend to brood too.

My thoughts.
LofMc

 

[Wehner Homestead]

Which breeds were you referring? Your original, or the ones I listed?

If of your original, from comments posted after my post, I think you want a dual purpose, calm bird, that lays decently.

You could cross the Wyandotte with the Barred Rock. Keep a Wyandotte male (I suggest a solid, medium color, such as a red) and place him over Barred Rock hens, you will get sex links. Girls will be black with red bleed through. Males will be single barred (black chicks with white head dot).

Wyandotte will bring in some heavier carcass while the Barred will boost the egg laying somewhat. You *tend* to get the middle of the road, but genetics can work differently, so you'll see variety. Because these birds are not that stepped away from each other, but somewhat middle of the road already, you should have steadier results.

Either the Wyandottes or the Barreds do well in runs and are not really aggressive birds (though it varies with the Barred males).

You will also get rose combed birds which winter better as rose comb is dominant over the Barred single comb.

However, subsequent generations, you'll end up with black chicks both genders with some gold/red bleed through (depending on the color of Wyandotte roo). If you breed from a WY/BR mix male, as he will be single barred, you get 50% barred and 50% unbarred both genders. So, sex linking will only work that first generation with a pure Wyandotte rooster and a pure Barred Rock hen.

The other thought is to choose a better quality RIR and breed with the Wyandotte. You'll get red rose combed, heavier RIR looking birds, both genders. *Should* be better tempered, although my Wyandottes were not super friendly, so you will risk some snotty behaviors in this line depending on the birds you use.

Many breeders use RIR to throw into their lines to improve egg production.

If you are referring to my breeds, I would get the Buckeye and breed with a good RIR to boost egg production, then line breed back to the Buckeye qualities. They pretty much are a dual purpose already, just not always good layers. Buckeye are not known for brooding, but if you plan to use an incubator, no worries.

Having a brooding hen and good production is counter goals. Hens that brood don't lay eggs.

Of those breeds, the Wyandotte has been a good mother, but is not generally a frequent brooder.

Barred Rocks have gone broody, and been good mothers, but commercial lines have pretty well been bred out.

Interestingly, I've had a number of Black Sex Link, commercial quality, go broody. So have a number of my friends.

RIR, hatchery quality, rarely go broody as they are prolific layers and are really Production Reds from the hatcheries.

Brahmas go broody, but they are so big and heavy they tend to crush their eggs and chicks. They are also harder to breed as their body fluff interferes with fertlization.

Orpingtons, if the right line, can be very broody and good mothers. My commercial lines never ever went broody. Orpingtons are also fluffier in the bum which can interfere with fertilty.

So if you want of the breeds you mentioned, for a long term sustainable, I would breed Wyandotte to Barred Rock, choosing the best qualities each generation. Mixes often become broody, especially if you've got a broody gal who broods chicks. Those chicks tend to brood too.

My thoughts.
LofMc

Thank you for all of the information! I should've provided more background.

I have mainly Isa's right now but several RIR and one of this and that. We also recently obtained some chicks that will lay colored eggs (we should have dk brown, blue, and green.) The eggs were meant to be a fun venture for the kids to see what color we can get.

We also have 3 silkies that I'm hoping will go broody to hatch some eggs in addition to an incubator. This gives me options.

The chicks we recently obtained are straight run so I'll probably keep all the Roos for the time being. I'll send them to freezer camp if/when they get aggressive.

I'd like to have layers that can produce more layers and decent broilers/fryers. I realize that production reds/blacks are going to lay more and Cornish are going to be meatier.

Docility is important with the kids. I will cull heartlessly to protect them. Only the silkie roos and a frypan special roo have been aggressive to an adult and that was dealt with promptly.

I'm looking for something that lays decently to add laying hens to my flock and find a roo to come back on them with. (Or get two SR sets of different breeds and raise them and switch the Roos that I keep to the opposite group.)

 

[ChocolateMouse]

I like buckeyes as well, but of the ones I've seen listed listed I have to endorse Australorps.

Pros; These chickens are large enough for a rooster to make a good table bird before he gets gamey, or for a retired hen to make a large pot pf soup. They lay a lot of eggs. They go broody often, which is great if you want chicks. They're extremely hardy, healthy birds. They're very friendly. They forage well. They're very hardy in cold weather.

Cons; Their friendliness makes them more prone to ting munched by wild animals than other breeds. They go broody often, which is terrible if you don't want chicks. They're less hardy in very hot weather.

 

[Redhead Rae]

Thank you for all of the information! I should've provided more background.

I have mainly Isa's right now but several RIR and one of this and that. We also recently obtained some chicks that will lay colored eggs (we should have dk brown, blue, and green.) The eggs were meant to be a fun venture for the kids to see what color we can get.

We also have 3 silkies that I'm hoping will go broody to hatch some eggs in addition to an incubator. This gives me options.

The chicks we recently obtained are straight run so I'll probably keep all the Roos for the time being. I'll send them to freezer camp if/when they get aggressive.

I'd like to have layers that can produce more layers and decent broilers/fryers. I realize that production reds/blacks are going to lay more and Cornish are going to be meatier.

Docility is important with the kids. I will cull heartlessly to protect them. Only the silkie roos and a frypan special roo have been aggressive to an adult and that was dealt with promptly.

I'm looking for something that lays decently to add laying hens to my flock and find a roo to come back on them with. (Or get two SR sets of different breeds and raise them and switch the Roos that I keep to the opposite group.)

If you start off with a rooster from one line, and hens from another line you can do a closed breeding scheme and keep inbreeding minimized. This is the plan I'm going to be following to breed my Cornish once I get another line of parent stock. I find that the pictures in the plan really help my grasp of what is going on rather than reading it in a book.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

If you start off with a rooster from one line, and hens from another line you can do a closed breeding scheme and keep inbreeding minimized. This is the plan I'm going to be following to breed my Cornish once I get another line of parent stock. I find that the pictures in the plan really help my grasp of what is going on rather than reading it in a book.

Very interesting concept!

 

[Redhead Rae]

Very interesting concept!

I think it is a distillation of Felch's Line-breeding scheme made understandable by diagrams.

 

[Wehner Homestead]

I'll definitely look into Buckeyes more. We live in Southern Indiana so we may live close enough to Ohio to get some.

 

[Lady of McCamley]

Thank you for all of the information! I should've provided more background.

I have mainly Isa's right now but several RIR and one of this and that. We also recently obtained some chicks that will lay colored eggs (we should have dk brown, blue, and green.) The eggs were meant to be a fun venture for the kids to see what color we can get.

We also have 3 silkies that I'm hoping will go broody to hatch some eggs in addition to an incubator. This gives me options.

The chicks we recently obtained are straight run so I'll probably keep all the Roos for the time being. I'll send them to freezer camp if/when they get aggressive.

I'd like to have layers that can produce more layers and decent broilers/fryers. I realize that production reds/blacks are going to lay more and Cornish are going to be meatier.

Docility is important with the kids. I will cull heartlessly to protect them. Only the silkie roos and a frypan special roo have been aggressive to an adult and that was dealt with promptly.

I'm looking for something that lays decently to add laying hens to my flock and find a roo to come back on them with. (Or get two SR sets of different breeds and raise them and switch the Roos that I keep to the opposite group.)

Admirable goals. To avoid re-inventing the wheel (and lots of culling), I would pick a breed, two at most, and work with them to hybridize those on your land, choosing the best to breed forward with the line method mentioned.

Typically choosing a decent meat layer and refreshing with a better production breed (such as the RIR) can get you to your goals fairly quickly.

Avoid bringing in too many different breeds at the beginning as it makes your job exponentially harder to achieve your goals as you simply have too many variables. You will get an assortment of this and that and a whole lot of 'nother.

What egg color breeds do you have? (I'm working with Barnevelder, Cream Legbar, and Marans). Marans have a nice carcass size and can be decent layers. I have the French line with leg feathering, but that drops out pretty quickly.

Do be aware that the specialty color birds do not have the most prolific production, which can slow your goals. They also typically don't have the best carcass size as they are usually bred for their egg color (with the exception of the Marans, and some Barnevelder).

I use a brooding stable of Silkies and bantam Cochins. It works quite well for doing small batches throughout the year. Together with the incubator, you should do well. I find my broody hatched chicks mature quicker, are hardier, and integrate with the flock almost seemlessly. I've gone to broody hatching 100% of the time now as I only need small batches (small being 6 to 9 at a time).

It can be a great way to get started with a flock for long term sustainability.

LofMc