Big Bad Mareks

[2ndTink]

Well, good and sad news today, I had a pullet start showing symptoms yesterday morning and she was gone this morning when I went out to feed. But, as I went over to get their feed I found 4 eggs in the corner! I'm not sure who the layer is, or layers. My friend has encouraged me to incubate the eggs (I know pullet eggs aren't ideal, but neither is facing Mareks....) I'm saving the eggs and I'll treat them as if I'm going to hatch them, that gives me a week to contemplate things... a lady I work with used to work at a commercial hatchery and she said they would store eggs for weeks, they would have the right conditions to get them to hibernate, I'm going to look this up. Besides being pullet eggs, the other problem is I don't know which female laid them and I have 6 (yikes!) cockerels in there. I have 1 frizzle cockerel and 1 frizzle pullet and I REALLY don't want to accidentally hatch a frazzle as I have enough issues already my next plan for the day is to try to provide a reasonable intelligent argument to the hubby as to why we need to buy puppy playpen panels today so I can separate my silkies into breeding pens. They won't be separated as I would have liked if Mareks hadn't showed up, but this is a chance for me to hatch some of my own silkie eggs and vaccinate those babies and give me a chance at saving these genetics.

So, I know the standard answer to "how long before a hen clears sperm from one rooster so you know it's for sure from X rooster..." but reasonably, if I separated them into pens today with only 1 cockerel in each pen, how long before 75%-ish chance the eggs are fertilized by the cockerel I have paired them with?

I've read that Mareks likes to take out pullets at POL, so I feel some pressure to hatch something... and yes, I'll be vaccinating! I'm going to set up my incubator and brooders in the basement, nice and safe, there should be zero or near zero Mareks buggies that have made it down there.

 

[TwoCrows]

Well, good and sad news today, I had a pullet start showing symptoms yesterday morning and she was gone this morning when I went out to feed. But, as I went over to get their feed I found 4 eggs in the corner! I'm not sure who the layer is, or layers. My friend has encouraged me to incubate the eggs (I know pullet eggs aren't ideal, but neither is facing Mareks....) I'm saving the eggs and I'll treat them as if I'm going to hatch them, that gives me a week to contemplate things... a lady I work with used to work at a commercial hatchery and she said they would store eggs for weeks, they would have the right conditions to get them to hibernate, I'm going to look this up. Besides being pullet eggs, the other problem is I don't know which female laid them and I have 6 (yikes!) cockerels in there. I have 1 frizzle cockerel and 1 frizzle pullet and I REALLY don't want to accidentally hatch a frazzle as I have enough issues already my next plan for the day is to try to provide a reasonable intelligent argument to the hubby as to why we need to buy puppy playpen panels today so I can separate my silkies into breeding pens. They won't be separated as I would have liked if Mareks hadn't showed up, but this is a chance for me to hatch some of my own silkie eggs and vaccinate those babies and give me a chance at saving these genetics.

So, I know the standard answer to "how long before a hen clears sperm from one rooster so you know it's for sure from X rooster..." but reasonably, if I separated them into pens today with only 1 cockerel in each pen, how long before 75%-ish chance the eggs are fertilized by the cockerel I have paired them with?

I've read that Mareks likes to take out pullets at POL, so I feel some pressure to hatch something... and yes, I'll be vaccinating! I'm going to set up my incubator and brooders in the basement, nice and safe, there should be zero or near zero Mareks buggies that have made it down there.

I am so sorry for your loss of the pullet. But at least she didn't linger for days on end. They are so good at hiding their symptoms, hopefully she didn't suffer long.

They say that after a rooster mates with a hen, it will take at least 3 days for the eggs to all be fertile. The second day she can technically start laying fertile eggs but it's not guaranteed until day 3 or 4.

I like the idea of puppy pens! Sounds like a great way to separate them out. Hopefully your hubby sees the importance of these!

Have a great weekend my dear!

 

[Debbie292d]

Well, good and sad news today, I had a pullet start showing symptoms yesterday morning and she was gone this morning when I went out to feed. But, as I went over to get their feed I found 4 eggs in the corner! I'm not sure who the layer is, or layers. My friend has encouraged me to incubate the eggs (I know pullet eggs aren't ideal, but neither is facing Mareks....) I'm saving the eggs and I'll treat them as if I'm going to hatch them, that gives me a week to contemplate things... a lady I work with used to work at a commercial hatchery and she said they would store eggs for weeks, they would have the right conditions to get them to hibernate, I'm going to look this up. Besides being pullet eggs, the other problem is I don't know which female laid them and I have 6 (yikes!) cockerels in there. I have 1 frizzle cockerel and 1 frizzle pullet and I REALLY don't want to accidentally hatch a frazzle as I have enough issues already my next plan for the day is to try to provide a reasonable intelligent argument to the hubby as to why we need to buy puppy playpen panels today so I can separate my silkies into breeding pens. They won't be separated as I would have liked if Mareks hadn't showed up, but this is a chance for me to hatch some of my own silkie eggs and vaccinate those babies and give me a chance at saving these genetics.

So, I know the standard answer to "how long before a hen clears sperm from one rooster so you know it's for sure from X rooster..." but reasonably, if I separated them into pens today with only 1 cockerel in each pen, how long before 75%-ish chance the eggs are fertilized by the cockerel I have paired them with?

I've read that Mareks likes to take out pullets at POL, so I feel some pressure to hatch something... and yes, I'll be vaccinating! I'm going to set up my incubator and brooders in the basement, nice and safe, there should be zero or near zero Mareks buggies that have made it down there.

I didn't realize Marek's can hit so fast, but like @TwoCrows said they are so good about hiding their symptoms. So sorry! I can't even imagine wondering who's going to go next, Tink.

I don't know the answer to your question about sperm and have the same dilemma/question. I read a hen taken away from males can lay fertilized eggs for two weeks. The question is, will a new rooster's sperm override the other rooster's?

So I go Google this and what do you know! Our own @NatJ has the answer!

 

[TwoCrows]

Our own @NatJ has the answer!

Very interesting info Debbie, thanks for sharing this!

 

[2ndTink]

I am so sorry for your loss of the pullet. But at least she didn't linger for days on end. They are so good at hiding their symptoms, hopefully she didn't suffer long.

They say that after a rooster mates with a hen, it will take at least 3 days for the eggs to all be fertile. The second day she can technically start laying fertile eggs but it's not guaranteed until day 3 or 4.

I like the idea of puppy pens! Sounds like a great way to separate them out. Hopefully your hubby sees the importance of these!

Have a great weekend my dear!

Pens purchased! We have a wind storm going through, it's supposed to be done in a few hours so I'll either get them set up later tonight or tomorrow morning. And... I have ordered my new coop! Hubby drove me there so I'm taking that as his 100% approval on my endeavors

I am also glad she didn't linger and suffer, ugh it's still so sad

I saw another one moving it's head like it was adjusting it's crop, I'm wondering if this may be an early symptom, I'll be keeping an eye on her. I also noticed a cockerel not quite himself, I'm not sure if it's the windy weather or potentially him starting to show signs of sickness. I haven't lost any cockerels yet.

I'm on the fence about cracking open one of the eggs to check fertility. If I did, I'd pick the smallest one.

 

[NatJ]

So, I know the standard answer to "how long before a hen clears sperm from one rooster so you know it's for sure from X rooster..." but reasonably, if I separated them into pens today with only 1 cockerel in each pen, how long before 75%-ish chance the eggs are fertilized by the cockerel I have paired them with?

Educated guess, based on what I've read from other sources: probably between 3 and 7 days until most eggs are sired by the new cockerel.

That is based on:
Earliest eggs sired by new cockerel, about 2 days (he mates with her, the egg forms, she lays it.)

Majority of eggs sired by the new cockerel, about one week (I forget where I read that, so I can't give a source.)

Quite confident of who is the sire, about 3 weeks in most cases.

Absolutely certain of who is the sire, at least 5 weeks and quite possibly longer than that in some rare cases, based on experiences some people have related here on backyardchickens.

If you are only worried about hatching a frazzle, you would not need to wait at all for the not-frizzle pullets. You could use their eggs right away. For the frizzle, I might wait anywhere from a week to a month, depending on how worried you are about the chance of a frazzle.

Since you mentioned a 75% chance of being sired by the male in the pen, I would guess a week would be the right amount of time to wait to get that level of accuracy.

If the frizzle is not laying, then of course you don't have to worry about hatching any frazzle chicks. You could check butts and get a fairly good idea of who is laying:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/who-is-laying-and-who-is-not-butt-check.73309/
(For comparison, look at any of the males: you know they are not laying. Compared with them, a layer's vent will be larger and look more moist & stretchy, and the ends of the pubic bones that you can feel below the vent will be further down and further apart on a layer.)

Or if you arrange the pens so you can identify the frizzle's eggs, you might find that she is not laying anyway, or if she is laying you will know which new eggs are hers. You could pen her alone, or with a male, or you could also include some pullets that would lay eggs of a different colors (like green vs. white).

 

[2ndTink]

I didn't realize Marek's can hit so fast, but like @TwoCrows said they are so good about hiding their symptoms. So sorry! I can't even imagine wondering who's going to go next, Tink.

I don't know the answer to your question about sperm and have the same dilemma/question. I read a hen taken away from males can lay fertilized eggs for two weeks. The question is, will a new rooster's sperm override the other rooster's?

So I go Google this and what do you know! Our own @NatJ has the answer!

It's just crazy, I look at them for any signs of sickness, they all run over to me and chatter and bebop around, then the next day they can be off balance. This is definitely hard emotionally, but I can't give up on them and still from all I'm reading and hearing, properly vaccinated chicks should have no issues.

Nice thread find! Very interesting. So there's literally a chance that I could have an egg fertilized by any of these cockerels for 5 weeks, but most likely it will be the new cockerel after a week. I can deal with that

Oh, I do have 6 cockerels but only 5 are in there, I kicked Chonkers out several weeks back because he was over the top annoying, chasing them around, grabbing feathers, and causing a massive ruckus.

 

[TwoCrows]

Pens purchased! We have a wind storm going through, it's supposed to be done in a few hours so I'll either get them set up later tonight or tomorrow morning. And... I have ordered my new coop! Hubby drove me there so I'm taking that as his 100% approval on my endeavors

I am also glad she didn't linger and suffer, ugh it's still so sad

I saw another one moving it's head like it was adjusting it's crop, I'm wondering if this may be an early symptom, I'll be keeping an eye on her. I also noticed a cockerel not quite himself, I'm not sure if it's the windy weather or potentially him starting to show signs of sickness. I haven't lost any cockerels yet.

I'm on the fence about cracking open one of the eggs to check fertility. If I did, I'd pick the smallest one.

Oh how egg-citing, new coop, pens...you must be stoked! This should help carry you though!

But yeah, I'd be constantly looking for symptomatic birds, a horrible way to look at the flock. I would probably drive myself nuts with worry, so I get it totally. Hopefully one day you can somehow come to terms with this awful virus, maybe one day there will be a cure or at least an antidote that combats all the symptoms. Massive hugs to you my dear.

 

[2ndTink]

Educated guess, based on what I've read from other sources: probably between 3 and 7 days until most eggs are sired by the new cockerel.

That is based on:
Earliest eggs sired by new cockerel, about 2 days (he mates with her, the egg forms, she lays it.)

Majority of eggs sired by the new cockerel, about one week (I forget where I read that, so I can't give a source.)

Quite confident of who is the sire, about 3 weeks in most cases.

Absolutely certain of who is the sire, at least 5 weeks and quite possibly longer than that in some rare cases, based on experiences some people have related here on backyardchickens.

If you are only worried about hatching a frazzle, you would not need to wait at all for the not-frizzle pullets. You could use their eggs right away. For the frizzle, I might wait anywhere from a week to a month, depending on how worried you are about the chance of a frazzle.

Since you mentioned a 75% chance of being sired by the male in the pen, I would guess a week would be the right amount of time to wait to get that level of accuracy.

If the frizzle is not laying, then of course you don't have to worry about hatching any frazzle chicks. You could check butts and get a fairly good idea of who is laying:
https://www.backyardchickens.com/articles/who-is-laying-and-who-is-not-butt-check.73309/
(For comparison, look at any of the males: you know they are not laying. Compared with them, a layer's vent will be larger and look more moist & stretchy, and the ends of the pubic bones that you can feel below the vent will be further down and further apart on a layer.)

Or if you arrange the pens so you can identify the frizzle's eggs, you might find that she is not laying anyway, or if she is laying you will know which new eggs are hers. You could pen her alone, or with a male, or you could also include some pullets that would lay eggs of a different colors (like green vs. white).

Yes! I was thinking of penning her (chocolate frizzle) alone with one unrelated cockerel (blue satin), then I could see if she's even laying.

The other three pullets are from the same breeding pen as the blue satin, so I was going to put them with the black frizzle cockerel who is from the same breeding pen as the chocolate frizzle. Splitting them like this will ensure no frazzles and no risk of inbreeding (as I don't know how closely related the birds in the breeding pens were). I did see that as I walked past the white pullet she squatted, so it could be her laying. The partridge gave a little shrug when I touched her but not a full squatt.

I'll date these eggs from today and keep track of which eggs come from what pens going forward and the date laid, I have mesh to make compartments in the incubator for hatching and different sized legband for the chicks to be able to track them.

 

[2ndTink]

Oh how egg-citing, new coop, pens...you must be stoked! This should help carry you though!

But yeah, I'd be constantly looking for symptomatic birds, a horrible way to look at the flock. I would probably drive myself nuts with worry, so I get it totally. Hopefully one day you can somehow come to terms with this awful virus, maybe one day there will be a cure or at least an antidote that combats all the symptoms. Massive hugs to you my dear.

If nothing else, hopefully I can learn something that can help someone else. I'm thankful for finding the eggs today, it gives me something happy to focus on and distract me from the loss. If the vaccine is all that is needed, then there are close to no worries. Just have to deal with the ups and downs of this positive flock to the end, whenever that may be. Ugh... think about the eggs, think about the eggs...