Birchen Marans Thread

[GaryDean26]

My SBM pair is doing really well though. The hen is laying every other day right now and the eggs are really dark eggs and they are big and round. Unlike some smaller and long eggs I have seen from some of my BCMs.

 

[TheCosmos]

I like you cockerel. my cockerel DID turn out to have the yellowish/cream tint to all of his white plumage below the hackle.

Yes, your SBM x Splash hen should have blue 100% blue offspring. I am not sure what the genetics of you splash hen are. Is she built on Birchen or Extended Black? Silver or Gold base?

I am surprised by how dark the chicks are. The blue chicks I have seen have always been a gray flannel color. Most of yours look black.

Thanks, that picture of him was taken when he was about 7 months old. He's developed much more silver the past couple of months and has filled out a lot. I like him. Let's me pick him up, not aggressive at all. Very pleasant to have until he starts crowing at 5:30am..

I have two chicks in particular that are darkest. 3 are middle ground and then 2 are pretty light. I have NO CLUE what the genetic background is of the splash hen. I do know she is the sweetest chicken I own though.. lol. So as these chicks mature, hopefully I will get more insight to what her genetic background is.

I do have two blue copper pullets that JUST developed their copper hackles so they gotta go.. Beautiful birds but dangit lots of copper!

 

[GaryDean26]

I would breed your best F1 Pullets back to your Silver Birchen Cockerel. If the Splash Pullet has a black copper Marans base then she will introduce mahogany and gold to the blue birchen which will give the boys the golden coloring rather the desired silver and could put the copper coloring on the shoulders of the birds. Breeding back to the Silver Birchen Cockerel should clean a lot of that up. Also if the Splash hen is built on extended black rather than birchen your hens will not show very the much needed silver on their hackles.

You also might want to band the chicks per their shade of down color so you know which were what later on.

 

[TheCosmos]

I would breed your best F1 Pullets back to your Silver Birchen Cockerel. If the Splash Pullet has a black copper Marans base then she will introduce mahogany and gold to the blue birchen which will give the boys the golden coloring rather the desired silver and could put the copper coloring on the shoulders of the birds. Breeding back to the Silver Birchen Cockerel should clean a lot of that up. Also if the Splash hen is built on extended black rather than birchen your hens will not show very the much needed silver on their hackles.

You also might want to band the chicks per their shade of down color so you know which were what later on.

Excellent idea! I did order some small multi-colored zip ties to help with identification at this young age. I will band them when they get older.

Thanks for the clarification of the birchen genetic. Basically what you are telling me is that 'birchen' is the name whereas 'silver' and 'copper' are the two colors it can be, and when you mix them together you get the mahogany. I guess when these babies get older the cockerels and hens will tell me what her base is.. in theory. Birchen or extended black....correct?

 

[pinkchick]

Gary~ GREAT POST!

Yep, Cosmos, you're getting it!

Except with the Mahogany, by mixing the 2, silver and copper, it does not make Mahogany.

When the Silver variety is crossed with the Black Copper variety, the Black Copper variety will contribute its Mahogany gene, this gene will add gold, thus messing up the nice clean silver by giving them that pale gold or creamy look and the Mahogany gene from the Black Coppers can also give them red shoulders.

Birchen (aka crow wing) is a secondary color pattern. Silver and Copper being 2 color varieties of Birchen Marans.....its just that Black Coppers are called Black Coppers and for some reason the name Birchen stuck with the Silver varieties.

 

[GaryDean26]

Crow wing + Silver = Silver Birchen color in Marans
Crow wing + Gold = Black Gold or Gold Birchen color in Marans (name?)
Crow wing + Gold + Mahogany = Black Copper color in Marans

The Mahogany is required to bring the rich copper color to the gold base color. Without the mahogany we see the straw color hackle feathers.

Like Pink said you don't want the mahogany in you Blue Birchens. It will give them the yellow laundry look (like my Silver Birchen cockerel has). Your cockerel is a nice clean color so use him well.

 

[TheCosmos]

Crow wing + Silver = Silver Birchen color in Marans
Crow wing + Gold = Black Gold or Gold Birchen color in Marans (name?)
Crow wing + Gold + Mahogany = Copper Copper color in Marans

The Mahogany is required to bring the rich copper color to the gold base color. Without the mahogany we see the straw color hackle feathers.

Like Pink said you don't want the mahogany in you Blue Birchens. It will give them the yellow laundry look (like my Silver Birchen cockerel has). Your cockerel is a nice clean color so use him well.

Thank you so much pinkchick and GaryDean for clearing this up for me.

If Gold is a naturally occuring color, why doesn't anyone breed 'Gold Birchen Marans' on purpose?

Does the Mahogany only tag onto the Gold genetic or can you have Mahogany on the Silver genetic?

I'm interested to see what these babies look like when they are older even moreso now!!

 

[pinkchick]

Your welcome Cosmos, glad you found it helpful.


About the gold colored ones...........I don't think they are considered and actual variety of Marans, to my knowledge anyway. I could be wrong.

I just know that with the Silver Birchen varieties, either Blue Birchen or the Silver Black that the gold or cream is considered leakage (leakage -shows the gold and or mahogany gene expressing by way of leaking through onto the silver) and is bred away from in the Silvers. I agree with Gary when he advises to breed the best silver colored females back to a nice clean Silver male and it will improve the gold or cream leakage by cleaning it up and making it more silver. It can take a few generations to get back to pure silver with no gold, but then I don't know if it (gold) is completely removed or not, by this I mean that I am not sure that it could't pop up again down the road.
I will soon be traveling this road of breeding out gold and Mahogany. I want Blue Birchens and want to breed size into the Birchens I have now...I have size in my Copper Marans and Blue so I am going to give it a try using one of my Splash Copper hens who doesn't show any copper..but I know she carries it. It's going to bumpy ride I know it, but am very much looking forward to learning what this venture can teach me.
Hope more come by and give their opinions as well and correct me if I have given you the wrong info.

 

[GaryDean26]

The lack of Mohogany would still be a Black Copper Marans, but with incorrect color. There are some black copper marans that come out with the straw color plumage. Everyone I know culls these birds. I guess you can breed for the straw color Marans if you want to, but by breeding to the standard you are working to the same goals as ever one else and will have others that you can work with to improove your flock.

 

[TheCosmos]

Your welcome Cosmos, glad you found it helpful.
About the gold colored ones...........I don't think they are considered and actual variety of Marans, to my knowledge anyway. I could be wrong.
I just know that with the Silver Birchen varieties, either Blue Birchen or the Silver Black that the gold or cream is considered leakage (leakage -shows the gold and or mahogany gene expressing by way of leaking through onto the silver) and is bred away from in the Silvers. I agree with Gary when he advises to breed the best silver colored females back to a nice clean Silver male and it will improve the gold or cream leakage by cleaning it up and making it more silver. It can take a few generations to get back to pure silver with no gold, but then I don't know if it (gold) is completely removed or not, by this I mean that I am not sure that it could't pop up again down the road.
I will soon be traveling this road of breeding out gold and Mahogany. I want Blue Birchens and want to breed size into the Birchens I have now...I have size in my Copper Marans and Blue so I am going to give it a try using one of my Splash Copper hens who doesn't show any copper..but I know she carries it. It's going to bumpy ride I know it, but am very much looking forward to learning what this venture can teach me.
Hope more come by and give their opinions as well and correct me if I have given you the wrong info.

Well blue birchen is what I am working on as well, so maybe we will have some 'trading' to do in the future! My rooster is a pretty big boy! Thank you for the information I believe I am starting to get it!