Birchen possible in BBS chicks?

[kurby22]

Each gene/trait/effect is given a symbol. And we write it as a pair - because each bird receives 1 half of their genetics from mom and 1 half from dad.

Birds are gold (the wild type colour) until we add any genes to modify that. Silver will modify gold by removing it.

Male birds need to receive two copies of that Silver gene for it to work properly.
If the male bird received two copies we write this as S / S
If the male bird only received one copy we write this as S / s+
(It seems counterintuitive but the little + sign means that gene is NOT present)
If the male bird has received no copies we write this as s+ / s+

We repeat this for all the possible genes.. for example Birchen
Two copies of Birchen base = E^r / E^r
One copy of Birchen base plus one copy of Extended Black base = E^r / EE

When you want to describe the birds entire genetic "recipe" you then list all those pairs!

This is why I got a C in genetics in college haha. The basics make sense, but when the recipes started, I got confused! You do a great job explaining in an understandable way, I appreciate it! So when leakage like this happens, it indicates that he is E/ER and Ss+ or he would have been gold if it was SS? Or do I still not get it? Haha.

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

This is why I got a C in genetics in college haha. The basics make sense, but when the recipes started, I got confused! You do a great job explaining in an understandable way, I appreciate it! So when leakage like this happens, it indicates that he is E/ER and Ss+ or he would have been gold if it was SS? Or do I still not get it? Haha.

You are bang on the money there!!

Yup the E/ER means he has enough Birchen in there to allow the pattern to show
If he has S/s+ he has ONE silver gene - which means gold will show but is lemony in shade
If he has s+/s+ he has NO silver genes - which means the gold will show as a brown shade

If his hackles were white I'd say he was S/S which means he has two silver genes and all gold is modified to silver/white.

Out of interest - here's a picture of one of my baby boys that is S / s+ (one silver). He shows the gold leakage and it's very reduced - to a lemony shade (not brown).
He is also a birchen based bird as it happens

 

[kurby22]

You are bang on the money there!!

Yup the E/ER means he has enough Birchen in there to allow the pattern to show
If he has S/s+ he has ONE silver gene - which means gold will show but is lemony in shade
If he has s+/s+ he has NO silver genes - which means the gold will show as a brown shade

If his hackles were white I'd say he was S/S which means he has two silver genes and all gold is modified to silver/white.

Out of interest - here's a picture of one of my baby boys that is S / s+ (one silver). He shows the gold leakage and it's very reduced - to a lemony shade (not brown).
He is also a birchen based bird as it happens

View attachment 2874272View attachment 2874273

Yay! I’m learning :-D your explanation makes total sense!

Oh wow!! That’s is a super neat coloring! How beautiful! What breed is he?

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Yay! I’m learning :-D your explanation makes total sense!

Oh wow!! That’s is a super neat coloring! How beautiful! What breed is he?

He is from my project group. Sebrights that were several generations back cross bred to pekins, and which are now being bred back to sebright type, but enjoying all the cool extra patterns along the way!

So I'd say he's 98% sebright and 2% pekin at this stage

 

[kurby22]

He is from my project group. Sebrights that were several generations back cross bred to pekins, and which are now being bred back to sebright type, but enjoying all the cool extra patterns along the way!

So I'd say he's 98% sebright and 2% pekin at this stage

Wow, he’s gorgeous. I would enjoy those neat colors too! Stuff like that makes me want to learn more genetics and have space for more birds haha! Dangerous…

 

[The Kooky Kiwi]

Wow, he’s gorgeous. I would enjoy those neat colors too! Stuff like that makes me want to learn more genetics and have space for more birds haha! Dangerous…

Well this place is a FANTASTIC place to learn

But I'd also suggest you spend a bit of time looking at this site linked below. In this place you can play with those gene pairs I mentioned and see the general outcomes you get.

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

 

[kurby22]

Well this place is a FANTASTIC place to learn

But I'd also suggest you spend a bit of time looking at this site linked below. In this place you can play with those gene pairs I mentioned and see the general outcomes you get.

http://kippenjungle.nl/kruising.html

Yes it is! I have learned SO much since joining in April! All the things I never knew about chickens! Here I always thought people were silly for being so into chickens. I feel so foolish now haha!

Thanks!! I will definitely check it out! The one for quail I tried was WAY confusing cuz you had to know the genes to use it, this looks way more fun and easy for the novice!

 

[Tankueray]

@kurby22 your chicks are E. They could be E/ER, but that's definitely the extended black chick down. There is no such thing as ER/EE, that's three genes and it would be deleterious.

@The Kooky Kiwi the + symbol designates wildtype. Capital or lowercase designates dominance. ER is written without carats or lowercase R, unless you have the ability to superscript an uppercase R. Silver doesn't cover gold, it prevents the deposit of it. It's important to understand the heirarchy of the color genes because later on there are some that "cover" others, but the e-allele and sex linked genes should be considered separately as the base of the genotype.

 

[Amer]

He is from my project group. Sebrights that were several generations back cross bred to pekins, and which are now being bred back to sebright type, but enjoying all the cool extra patterns along the way!

So I'd say he's 98% sebright and 2% pekin at this stage

Ooh, what are your goals for the pattern?

@kurby22 your chicks are E. They could be E/ER, but that's definitely the extended black chick down. There is no such thing as ER/EE, that's three genes and it would be deleterious.

@The Kooky Kiwi the + symbol designates wildtype. Capital or lowercase designates dominance. ER is written without carats or lowercase R, unless you have the ability to superscript an uppercase R. Silver doesn't cover gold, it prevents the deposit of it. It's important to understand the heirarchy of the color genes because later on there are some that "cover" others, but the e-allele and sex linked genes should be considered separately as the base of the genotype.

Not necessarily. Look at these Marans chicks, for example:

On Henk’s site it says

“Solid black​

Birchen is often used as a base for creating a fully black chicken. Compared to Extended Black the shank color is less dark, possibly allowing yellow legs more easily.”
That is why I thought these Cochins are birchen based. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this was the case with most birchen based yellow shanked breeds.
@nicalandia is it true, or am I found false? I’m having trouble backing up what I believed.

 

[nicalandia]

Ooh, what are your goals for the pattern?

Not necessarily. Look at these Marans chicks, for example:View attachment 2874486
On Henk’s site it says

“Solid black​

Birchen is often used as a base for creating a fully black chicken. Compared to Extended Black the shank color is less dark, possibly allowing yellow legs more easily.”
That is why I thought these Cochins are birchen based. Maybe I am wrong, but I thought this was the case with most birchen based yellow shanked breeds.
@nicalandia is it true, or am I found false? I’m having trouble backing up what I believed.

You are right, that is how Yellow shanked Black Rocks and Black Leghorns are created ER/ER with ML and other melanizers