Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[jmanderson777]

I didn't see anyone comment on this cockerel :/
I am going out on a line here and going to say for the record, " I Like this boy".
He looks solid for type and color.  Looks like he is going to have a beefy chest, nice back length and good tail angle.
Eye color is a little light, but that could be the photo.  His wattles are good size, not too large and ear lobes look solid red.


Areas for you to look closely at...
1.)  Inspect that comb carefullly on both sides.  Look for anything weird...  I just can not see it well on my computer.

2.)  Look at him for front and back.... You are looking for width.  A narrow rooster can not be identified with photos taken in a side profile.

3.)  Chest color... The chest should be BLACK.... I can not see if this boy is hiding color on his chest that should not be there...

4.)  Wing - Open the wings.  At 21 weeks.... There should not be any white feathers hiding in the wings.  If there are any white feathers,  they should be molting soon VERY Soon, if they are going to.  This is a DQ.

5.)  Undercoat,  peel back some feathers at the neck.  See if he has white in the undercolor.   This is considered a fault,  not a DQ.

6.)  Middle toe feathering... LOOK CLOSELY at the middle toes.  Feathers should be on the outside of the outer toes - ONLY..  On any other toe, the feathering is a fault.

Thanks for the input. The only faults I've found on him is one white tail feather but I'm hoping it will drop. The fluff is black around it. He also has some color on his chest. Not sure if this would be too much or not.

 

[johnderosa1]

I am new to BCMs and like everyone else have been trying to build a flock of birds that are true to standard and lay really dark eggs..... I've been reading through the posts and keep seeing the statement that chest color should be black. However the following excerpt is from the standards section of the Marans Club of America for Black Copper Marans:

Cock : Black-breasted red, with parsimonious red spotting on the breast. Having a black wing triangle. The red markings are not to be yellow or mahogany. Copper colored lancets in the neck hackle & the back. Deep red shoulders.

My reading of this + what I have read on the French Marans clubs standards seems to point to the proper coloring as being Black Breasted WITH Red Spotting. Am I reading this wrong? In looking at this cockeral (from above), I see a Black Breasted bird with Red Spotting, right in line with what the standards say. I would love to here from the readers on what I am misinterpreting. I selected my Cock bird out of 14 cockerals based on my interpretation of the standards and got rid of several nice birds with completely Black Breasts. I hope I didn't screw up. This bird has what I believe is the proper body shape, excellent leg feathering, black breast with some red spotting. Tail angle looks good and overall plumage looks good. The one potential problem I see is that he has some gold feathers on his upper back underneath his neck hackles. Anyway, I am very curious about the thoughts on red spots on the breast. I kept another bird that had a really Red Breast and have since decided that even though he is huge, broad breasted, DARK red shoulder patch, and beautiful rich copper hackles and his overall body shape seems great he is just too red. His offspring have all been mossy and I will cull him in the next few weeks.

 

[snowbird]

I am new to BCMs and like everyone else have been trying to build a flock of birds that are true to standard and lay really dark eggs..... I've been reading through the posts and keep seeing the statement that chest color should be black. However the following excerpt is from the standards section of the Marans Club of America for Black Copper Marans:

Cock : Black-breasted red, with parsimonious red spotting on the breast. Having a black wing triangle. The red markings are not to be yellow or mahogany. Copper colored lancets in the neck hackle & the back. Deep red shoulders.

My reading of this + what I have read on the French Marans clubs standards seems to point to the proper coloring as being Black Breasted WITH Red Spotting. Am I reading this wrong? In looking at this cockeral (from above), I see a Black Breasted bird with Red Spotting, right in line with what the standards say. I would love to here from the readers on what I am misinterpreting. I selected my Cock bird out of 14 cockerals based on my interpretation of the standards and got rid of several nice birds with completely Black Breasts. I hope I didn't screw up. This bird has what I believe is the proper body shape, excellent leg feathering, black breast with some red spotting. Tail angle looks good and overall plumage looks good. The one potential problem I see is that he has some gold feathers on his upper back underneath his neck hackles. Anyway, I am very curious about the thoughts on red spots on the breast. I kept another bird that had a really Red Breast and have since decided that even though he is huge, broad breasted, DARK red shoulder patch, and beautiful rich copper hackles and his overall body shape seems great he is just too red. His offspring have all been mossy and I will cull him in the next few weeks.

The club that sponsored the SOP standard to the APA was the MCCUSA and their rendition of the Standard is the only one that matters.

 

[johnderosa1]

Thanks! Pretty hard to find their site. I've never seen it before..... wish I had before making my selection. Bummer.

 

[math ace]

Thanks! Pretty hard to find their site. I've never seen it before..... wish I had before making my selection. Bummer.

Try this thread...
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/385769/marans-proposed-standards-for-reference-purposes

Post # 6

Specifically,

BREAST: Solid black or with a few copper spots. Not laced.


There was a discussion about defining exactly how much was "A FEW COPPER SPOTS". I think the conclusion was that it should be no more than 10% of the chest area... In other words...just a itty bitty amount

 

[DMRippy]

This thread was started by Wynette and is a good source too. She has pictures too. She has the APPROVED standard in the first post. It ALSO says spots on the breast. There is NO OFFICIAL AMOUNT. Think the 10% comes from the French standard. The French breed with the red in the breast.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/517113/marans-sop-discussion-thread

The SOP is a guide, some things people will interpret their own way, even the judges. My BCM roo has red in his chest, not much but some. He is not going anywhere. He carries VERY dark egg genes and will be with me for several years. I may cull for it in the next gen, but right now, he gets to stick around.

 

[picanins]

 

[johnderosa1]

I just want to say thanks to the last few posters (snowbird, math ace and DHRippy) for pointing me in the right direction. I sure wish I had discovered this thread sooner. Does anyone know how to upload pictures here? I could take a few decent pictures of his breast and send them through for comment. I am thinking that he is more like 25% but will have to go out and check. I do have some other pictures that are pretty good that will show the rest of him. Maybe he is not a complete loss....

John

 

[snowbird]

I just want to say thanks to the last few posters (snowbird, math ace and DHRippy) for pointing me in the right direction. I sure wish I had discovered this thread sooner. Does anyone know how to upload pictures here? I could take a few decent pictures of his breast and send them through for comment. I am thinking that he is more like 25% but will have to go out and check. I do have some other pictures that are pretty good that will show the rest of him. Maybe he is not a complete loss....

John

John, There is not much left to individual preference as some say if we read the first 40 pages of the SOP. We should never breed the spotted Breast males if we are breeding to the SOP.

I never pay much attention to what people say if they do not have a SOP from the APA. All this information is in the first 40 pages. You will never find very much in the breed Standards, And this is because they want to standardize the SOP.

 

[DMRippy]

I just want to say thanks to the last few posters (snowbird, math ace and DHRippy) for pointing me in the right direction.  I sure wish I had discovered this thread sooner. Does anyone know how to upload pictures here?  I could take a few decent pictures of his breast and send them through for comment.  I am thinking that he is more like 25% but will have to go out and check. I do have some other pictures that are pretty good that will show the rest of him.  Maybe he is not a complete loss.... 

John

 

John, There is not much left to individual preference as some say if we read the first 40 pages of the SOP. We should never breed the spotted Breast males if we are breeding to the SOP.

I never pay much attention to what people say if they do not have a SOP from the APA. All this information is in the first 40 pages. You will never find very much in the breed Standards, And this is because they want to standardize the SOP.

I do have a SOP from the APA. BUT none have the marans. If judges will let marans win with DQs then there must be some indiviidual interpretation of the standard at APA shows.