Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[snowbird]

There are signs that tell if the male is BC or Wheaten look at the wing triangle and the wheaten will be brown or cinnamin. The blended hackle on the BC is a sure sign of wheaten blood. Also the males with white legs instead of slate. A happy medium would be a medium slate for the males.

 

[ashandvine]

OKAY! I totally have a Wheaten Cockerel then because the large cockerel I posted earlier has the lighter legs. So did 'red boy' that we culled. The second and third of my cockerels do not have this. Their legs are what I would calls slate... after having Ameraucanas and Polish this is what I judge by anyway. Also noted is that the skin around the Wheaten's face seems lighter, almost white, under his feathers, though his ear is not. Maybe I should work with Wheaten if this is what I have. I really like the BC, though... but just a minute ago I couldn't tell the cocks apart so what does that say!? Still not sure what to do here. Maybe with this new influx of FOR SURE coppers I can move forward.
Thank you so(!) much snowbird.

 

[Chickengirl1304]

NO they are not sex linked for color.  However ususally by 4-6wks you can see a clear differeance in comb size.  The roos having bigger combs.

Thank you. Do you know if I breed my BCM to barred rock hens will they be sex linked? Thanks

 

[VillageChicken]

One distinction to make here is what you are calling Wheaten. There is only one wheaten gene that makes a Marans "wheaten", and a Black Copper may display white shanks, less black in the hackle, brown fluff in the bum, and red on the chest of roosters without having the wheaten gene. These faults have been collectively called "wheaten influence", or what can be the leftover faults when there is wheaten in the background.

White shanks and red in the chest do not mean you have a wheaten Marans. But they can suggest they may be carrying the wheaten gene, and are at least faults that can originate from wheaten being bred to BC.

Things are a little different here in Europe, and I have seen pure BC with good dark copper colored hackle with only a bit of black striping, and most of the pure black copper roosters have lighter shanks than what I have seen in U.S. bred BCM. So these traits can be found on pure BC as well.

There is a gene called Darkbrown, that produces brown headed chicks, when they should be mostly black. This gene is not from wheaten, but can cause brown fluff or extra red in the breast or shafting/mossiness throughout in adults. This gene is fairly prevalent, and often goes undetected in hens, so mark and don't use any birds that started out with brown heads.

All this to say, if you see faults they don't always mean wheaten in the bird you are looking at. They may just mean wheaten in the parentage. Also, just because you are seeing blue doesn't mean you have wheaten, you may just have some blue copper parentage.

But starting over with very good stock is always the best solution. You're in the right place, and asking questions and learning is the best first step before beginning again.

I don't go to the big Marans thread very often, I don't get enough laptop time to follow it, though amidst the friendly chatter there are tons of great things to learn. I spent a couple years following it, and learned a lot. If you have the time, there's good people and good stuff there.

 

[ashandvine]

Thank you, with laughter. Well, I read the SOP thread first and lurked in here for a bit. I *thought* I knew what a BCM looked like but now I am so confused. I do understand that there is likely wheaten in there somewhere. I really think the type on my pullets was good and the type on the male with poor hackles was good. Could I have feed back on just that part? I have been waiting for these to grow out etc so starting over is a pia but I might anyway.

VillageChicken, if you would, could you post pictures sometime?

 

[marquisella]

Thank you for that reality check and the detail of testing. I might be in for some real trouble/long haul here. I'm okay with starting small but I would rather start with good, basic stock and only a few of them then breed for perfection. I would rather not start with lots of big faults. The Marans males I kept were the largest, one being the largest I have seen period, though I knew his color was bad in his hackle. I had hoped if I crossed him into a melenized hen or pullet that would correct some of the color issue. The other gals I had honestly hoped only had small faults. I never even knew to look for the brown cast in their fluff. I went out and picked up one of the pullets to check her fluff. There is a little auburn/brown cast but not as much as the picture was showing. Maybe the photos are more accurate. I'm really embarrassed: I went and looked at Wheaton vs Black Copper on Bev Davis' web page and can't tell the difference in the males. (thank goodness you can't hit me with things in here.) Obviously I can tell in the pullets and hens but the cock/erels... maybe they look a little more blue in their chest than black but.... I want to learn, so please don't give up on me. This would certainly explain why one of he other cockerels who came with this group was very red all over and why there was also a blue in there. I think these folks who got these birds got a mix instead of just BCM. They told me they were just BC and clearly I didn't know better. Except the two pullets I showed. They are supposed to be strictly bc. ??

Are we heading to the other thread or a new one? Could a link be posted in here for everyone's ease?

On top is a Wheaten roo. See the tips of his wing feathers are brown.
The bottom is A black copper , wings are all black, not with brown tips.

 

[Ray from PA]

Thank you VillageChicken for you input.

Nice to have the perspective of a European.

Very possible you have had more exposure and experience with the breed since it's origin is closer to you !

Please post photos if possible,,, would love to see how they may differ. US standards are somewhat different from French.

How dark is the egg color you have ?

 

[chicken-a-dee55]

Looking for opinions and thoughts on this chick

 

[Chickengirl1304]

FBCM just hatched with 2 webbed toes together on the outside. Is that normal?

 

[Zanna]

FBCM just hatched with 2 webbed toes together on the outside. Is that normal?

I don't think so if I am picturing what you mean......... Seems like I have heard something about this before and maybe cutting the webbing between the two toes? Anyone with experience on this??? Please don't attempt this unless others chime in, it may have been a dream..........