Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[DMRippy]

Someone mentioned that they breed for less green for some reason. I think it was OHmama? Something like that......she shows chickens and is on the cuckoo thread too. I don't have my computer or I would look it up.

 

[happyfrenchman]

I have a question for some of you with much more experience. I hope this is the place to ask. . I have a small flock of BCMs and some Blue coppers as well. I am trying to increase my flock of hens and have been running a rolling hatch for the last month and a half. I have experienced chicks drowning in their shells from too much moisture. I am currently running a hatch much drier than previously. Trying to keep it at 20%. (had been doing 45-50) Fingers are crossed. Thus far, I have attempted over 50 eggs and so far have 7 chicks to show for it. And of those chicks, I would say half of them are from lighter blue copper eggs. (of which I incubated fewer.) I am doing a rolling hatch because I have only 3 black hens that lay the darker egg. (Of which I currently have a light on in coop to keep them laying while I try to increase the flock.) (I must say they are laying very well in that regard.) Anyway, I am beginning to think the darker shell is an adaptation to a different reality in the marshy areas where these chickens are from. I thought perhaps the dark egg would be camouflaged in a muddy or boggy area. Has anyone explored this. It seems like the eggs retain moisture, I would have thought a marshy area would be high humidity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[chasehope]

I have all black and blue coppers as well as a few splash hens. I bought some hens from a local breeder and had my mom pick them up and bring them to me, when they got here 3 of them (2 black 1 blue) have NO copper. She can't tell me if they have any copper in their background. Should I just sell them or could they be useful in my breeding program?

 

[CristinaB]

I have a question for some of you with much more experience. I hope this is the place to ask. . I have a small flock of BCMs and some Blue coppers as well. I am trying to increase my flock of hens and have been running a rolling hatch for the last month and a half. I have experienced chicks drowning in their shells from too much moisture. I am currently running a hatch much drier than previously. Trying to keep it at 20%. (had been doing 45-50) Fingers are crossed. Thus far, I have attempted over 50 eggs and so far have 7 chicks to show for it. And of those chicks, I would say half of them are from lighter blue copper eggs. (of which I incubated fewer.) I am doing a rolling hatch because I have only 3 black hens that lay the darker egg. (Of which I currently have a light on in coop to keep them laying while I try to increase the flock.) (I must say they are laying very well in that regard.) Anyway, I am beginning to think the darker shell is an adaptation to a different reality in the marshy areas where these chickens are from. I thought perhaps the dark egg would be camouflaged in a muddy or boggy area. Has anyone explored this. It seems like the eggs retain moisture, I would have thought a marshy area would be high humidity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

20% is a bit low. I incubate my eggs at 58% and have no problems. Is it possible that your Humidity sensor is faulty? After lockdown (day 18) you want to increase your humidity to 68%. Also, are you putting your eggs into the egg turner large side up? After lockdown, get some cheesecloth and put the eggs on their sides without the turner and make sure you increase humidity. These things seem to work great for me. Without knowing your set up or your steps it is hard to diagnose the issue. Sounds like there is something wrong with your humidity but it could also be positioning.

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

I have a question for some of you with much more experience. I hope this is the place to ask. . I have a small flock of BCMs and some Blue coppers as well. I am trying to increase my flock of hens and have been running a rolling hatch for the last month and a half. I have experienced chicks drowning in their shells from too much moisture. I am currently running a hatch much drier than previously. Trying to keep it at 20%. (had been doing 45-50) Fingers are crossed. Thus far, I have attempted over 50 eggs and so far have 7 chicks to show for it. And of those chicks, I would say half of them are from lighter blue copper eggs. (of which I incubated fewer.) I am doing a rolling hatch because I have only 3 black hens that lay the darker egg. (Of which I currently have a light on in coop to keep them laying while I try to increase the flock.) (I must say they are laying very well in that regard.) Anyway, I am beginning to think the darker shell is an adaptation to a different reality in the marshy areas where these chickens are from. I thought perhaps the dark egg would be camouflaged in a muddy or boggy area. Has anyone explored this. It seems like the eggs retain moisture, I would have thought a marshy area would be high humidity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I'm not very experienced with incubating, so I'll say that to start. Do you weigh your eggs? We did a dry hatch (~24%rh) for the first seven days and determined the eggs were losing too much weight to be on track for 14-16% weight loss by lockdown. Went to ~38% until lockdown at 65% and had 83% hatch rate on our Marans the first time out. Starting this hatch at about 34-36% and we'll see what the weights tell us on Day 7, and 14. That seems to be more accurate than the size of the aircells.

I am assuming here that you mean you have only hatched 7 of 50 fertile eggs, right?

 

[Runawaylobster]

I have a question for some of you with much more experience. I hope this is the place to ask. . I have a small flock of BCMs and some Blue coppers as well. I am trying to increase my flock of hens and have been running a rolling hatch for the last month and a half. I have experienced chicks drowning in their shells from too much moisture. I am currently running a hatch much drier than previously. Trying to keep it at 20%. (had been doing 45-50) Fingers are crossed. Thus far, I have attempted over 50 eggs and so far have 7 chicks to show for it. And of those chicks, I would say half of them are from lighter blue copper eggs. (of which I incubated fewer.) I am doing a rolling hatch because I have only 3 black hens that lay the darker egg. (Of which I currently have a light on in coop to keep them laying while I try to increase the flock.) (I must say they are laying very well in that regard.) Anyway, I am beginning to think the darker shell is an adaptation to a different reality in the marshy areas where these chickens are from. I thought perhaps the dark egg would be camouflaged in a muddy or boggy area. Has anyone explored this. It seems like the eggs retain moisture, I would have thought a marshy area would be high humidity. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

I have run my humidity anywhere between 20% and 45% for the first 18 days and have experienced good hatches with either scenario. I had one terrible hatch last year and in that one i had the humidity way too high at 80%, but really i think i had temperature issues on that hatch. In most cases I have found that the temperature is much more critical, is it possible that you have your temperature a little off?

in general i hatch the marans along with everyone else and they all get the same treatment, the only thing i do notice is that the marans are generally the last ones to pop out.

It's interesting that you have found the hatch rate goes down with the darker the egg, so since you have 3 hens i am wondering if is one particular hen that you have issues coming from (sort of a co-variable that ties in with the egg color). I have read that hatchability is an inheritable trait, so it could conceivably be that the incubation is not actually the real problem?

 

[happyfrenchman]

20% is a bit low. I incubate my eggs at 58% and have no problems. Is it possible that your Humidity sensor is faulty? After lockdown (day 18) you want to increase your humidity to 68%. Also, are you putting your eggs into the egg turner large side up? After lockdown, get some cheesecloth and put the eggs on their sides without the turner and make sure you increase humidity. These things seem to work great for me. Without knowing your set up or your steps it is hard to diagnose the issue. Sounds like there is something wrong with your humidity but it could also be positioning.

Cristina

Thank you... I have used backup hygrometers and thermometers in both machines. They remain close in readings and track together. (Hatcher is a styrofoam hovabator. incubator is a Janoel. Both hold temperature rock steady.37.6. Hatcher is between 65 and 70. I inject water in with a tube and syringe to avoid opening.

What you recommend is what I was originally doing. Not all the eggs were fertile but most were. I was sitting and watching as eggs went past their due date and nothing. I even took one and opened it. The chick was alive but was either damaged by my rescue attempt or already weak which is probably closer to the truth. I read about chicks being overlarge. The ones that have hatched best seem smaller. The ones that did not hatch... one of them looked like it had pipped the inner membrane but it was large and the membrane seemed pretty rubbery The air cell was small...Now I am weighing each egg as it goes in. I will track the weight loss. Also now I have been candling everything as it goes to the hatcher. Most are fertile. I have just switched over to the dry method Monday and still have about 30 eggs in various stages. The dark egg is not easy to candle in the light room. I am looking to see lighter eggs with larger air cells. This has been quite a challenge for me. Thank you.

 

[happyfrenchman]

I have run my humidity anywhere between 20% and 45% for the first 18 days and have experienced good hatches with either scenario. I had one terrible hatch last year and in that one i had the humidity way too high at 80%, but really i think i had temperature issues on that hatch. In most cases I have found that the temperature is much more critical, is it possible that you have your temperature a little off?

in general i hatch the marans along with everyone else and they all get the same treatment, the only thing i do notice is that the marans are generally the last ones to pop out.

It's interesting that you have found the hatch rate goes down with the darker the egg, so since you have 3 hens i am wondering if is one particular hen that you have issues coming from (sort of a co-variable that ties in with the egg color). I have read that hatchability is an inheritable trait, so it could conceivably be that the incubation is not actually the real problem?

Thank you Runawaylobster....I am getting more in line with what you describe. I am waiting to see an improvement. I have used backup hygrometers and thermometers in both machines. They remain close in readings and track together. (Hatcher is a styrofoam hovabator. incubator is a Janoel. Both hold temperature rock steady.37.6. Hatcher is between 65 and 70 humidity. I leave it closed. I inject water in with a tube and syringe to avoid opening.
I have three blue and three black hens. But I was primarily interested in more of the blacks so I incubated many more of those. But anecdotally, the blues they do seem more hatchable. The egg is lighter, sometimes with speckles. That is why I was wondering if the dark egg was some kind of vapor barrier. I read where one girl was actually improving her odds by sanding the eggs and then coating them with an antibacterial and incubating them. My understanding of the history of these birds is they have marsh hen in their lineage.

 

[happyfrenchman]

I'm not very experienced with incubating, so I'll say that to start. Do you weigh your eggs? We did a dry hatch (~24%rh) for the first seven days and determined the eggs were losing too much weight to be on track for 14-16% weight loss by lockdown. Went to ~38% until lockdown at 65% and had 83% hatch rate on our Marans the first time out. Starting this hatch at about 34-36% and we'll see what the weights tell us on Day 7, and 14. That seems to be more accurate than the size of the aircells.

I am assuming here that you mean you have only hatched 7 of 50 fertile eggs, right?

That is good information.... 38% would still be considerably dryer than I was doing initially. I started weighting them Monday and I will have data tomorrow. Shooting for 13% loss, You were tracking it and determined it was too far ahead.... you raise the humidity.

Someone somewhere said that high humidity would not cause the egg to take on water, but it would impair the egg respirating water away.

And no, not all the eggs were fertile. I would say 80% of them were fertile or at least clear when ready for the hatcher.

 

[Maggiesdad]

...I read where one girl was actually improving her odds by sanding the eggs and then coating them with an antibacterial and incubating them....

Eggs that have resided under a broody for 2 to 2-1/2 wks look nothing like untouched eggs in an incubator, in my opinion. They get a polished glow. Just something to think about.