Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[kristinn]

Question, (I'm fairly new to BCMs) I'm looking at trading for this rooster, he hatched in May/June of this year.. he doesn't have as much coloring as I would like, but will his colors come out more as he matures? Or should I start looking elsewhere?

 

[One Chick Two]

I'm new to the thread. I have a BCM hen that is about a year and a half and weighs 4.4lbs. Is that a normal weight for a hen this age? I've read that typically a full grown chicken will weigh between 5-6 lbs. I've done everything I can to fatten her up but no luck. I have one other hen, a delaware that weights 4.6lbs. They do not have worms and are laying daily.

Hmmm... this does seem like a pretty light weight for a hen of this age. Is there any way possible she could be a black copper Marans bantam? Maybe showing a photo might be helpful. Have you ever wormed her?

When our first hens were this age, most ranged around 6 pounds. One hen is larger and very solid- she is only slightly smaller than the rooster. Some of our 6 month old pullets are around 4 lbs right now.

If you do plan on breeding them, I would suggest using a heavier hen.

 

[Shaw117]

The lady that sold her to me said she would be full size, I als have a Delaware hen that is the same age and weighs 4.6lbs. I wormed them both about a month ago with safeguard because I did see worms in their stool but I have not seen any more worms since them. I don't plan on breeding them but am just worried that they are underweight. =(

 

[One Chick Two]

Question, (I'm fairly new to BCMs) I'm looking at trading for this rooster, he hatched in May/June of this year.. he doesn't have as much coloring as I would like, but will his colors come out more as he matures? Or should I start looking elsewhere?

I'm not an expert, so here's my limited thoughts on this.

Not necessarily... He does carry a lot of mahogany from being overmelanized. Sometimes when paired with the right females, and careful culling of many progeny, dark coloring can be overcome- even in one generation. He looks a bit nervous in the photos and may be holding his back a bit straighter then he normally stands. However... he has a large look about him- even being young, and also a wide stance, so I think he may get somewhat larger still. His eyes are good, face and comb are nice. Others may disagree, but I'd try him and see what I got. When you start off with males this dark, haloes are not often an issue.

He could maybe use a bit more roundedness in the chest. He's a little small in the rear end where the tail starts- this ideally should be fairly wide here. His tail is pretty large, with large sickle feathers. Marans should have more smallish tails. But still, that is fine, but would be good to rein in. Even so, it is not a squirrel tail, so you really want to carefully choose your hens. Make sure they have the correct back slope, shorter tail, and low tail angle.

Notice his dark head, and his ear coverts are dark? There is also black spotting on his neck hackle tips and saddle tips, this is called ticking. Ticking can be bred, out, but you will need to get a lot of feet on the ground so you have choices as some of the progeny will also have ticking in varying degrees that you will have to cull out. Eventually you should need to swap out this male for a better colored son. (I would have at least two or three in case something happens.)

If I had him, my ideal love connections for him would your nicest hen. She ideally would be a long backed, wide, solid hen of correct type. She'd have a well rounded chest, with a low set, small tail, well feathered shanks, and a well defined, correct copper hackle. Ideally there should be the copper color right above her eyes. Well-colored, but avoid mossiness. And have some darkness to her eggs. Her shanks would have full feathering lining down the outside toe.

Should If you choose well, you will have multiple, really nice and better balanced colored cockerels to choose from. Then, I would pair the new son to his mother, and make sure you are on track and balanced before doing heavy breeding or adding multiple hens.

Again, if you hatch enough, you will see many variations of the ticking, but there will also be many who will not have any ticking.

 

[One Chick Two]

The lady that sold her to me said she would be full size, I als have a Delaware hen that is the same age and weighs 4.6lbs. I wormed them both about a month ago with safeguard because I did see worms in their stool but I have not seen any more worms since them. I don't plan on breeding them but am just worried that they are underweight. =(

Yes, she is small. When you hold her in your hand, do you feel a good amount of flesh around her keel, or does she feel pretty boney underneath? Next time, alternate your worming with Valbazen (dose twice two weeks apart) , which is a full spectrum wormer and should get any other worms that you may not notice easily like hairworms or tape worm sements. Safeguard targets just roundworms.

 

[kristinn]

One chick Two - Thank you for your input
I've decided against him, lol but there are a lot of great pointers in your post and throughout this thread - making mental notes for later. I ended up finding this guy (the one in the front) not a very good pic but even so, I'm much more pleased with his coloring. Going to pick him up today or tomorrow so I will post better pics later

 

[Shaw117]

Yes, she is small. When you hold her in your hand, do you feel a good amount of flesh around her keel, or does she feel pretty boney underneath? Next time, alternate your worming with Valbazen (dose twice two weeks apart) , which is a full spectrum wormer and should get any other worms that you may not notice easily like hairworms or tape worm sements. Safeguard targets just roundworms.

Yes, I have been checking around her keel bone and it has some flesh but is pretty boney. If I wormed them about 2 months ago, how long should I wait before trying the Valbazen? I just lost a dominique 2 mos ago that dropped down to 2lbs. Vet said she may have had an early respiratory issue but found no worms in her. I'm so worried that they have the same thing. They have not lost any weight in the 2 months I've been weighing them & feeding more protein, they have gained about .2lbs each but I just feel like they should be gaining faster...

 

[One Chick Two]

One chick Two - Thank you for your input

I've decided against him, lol but there are a lot of great pointers in your post and throughout this thread - making mental notes for later. I ended up finding this guy (the one in the front) not a very good pic but even so, I'm much more pleased with his coloring. Going to pick him up today or tomorrow so I will post better pics later

Kristinn, you're welcome. Again, no expert here.... but have had experience working out ticking.

I do think this big boy overall may be a much better choice. Like the look of this keeper's birds. Do they say what line this is?
The fellow in the front, I like his solid looking width, and rounded chest very much. He looks to have the great tail angle like the male behind, and the shorter tails as I mentioned. Much wider rear end. Nice, tight wing pointing to vent. Nice amount of mahogany on wing bows.

However, when you go to pick him up, really look the boy over and just make sure that lower halo isn't straw colored, or, light lemon yellow. A smaller gradient amount can be okay to work through. Even copper hue from hackle to saddle is ideally what we're shooting for, so straw, or, very light haloes can create overcolor issues. Also, this brightness just may be a trick of the light as I can see sunlight on the right of the pen and may just be washing out the copper there.

Is there any way that you can purchase the guy in the back? He looks really amazing- I think he's exactly just what you want to aim for, from what I can see. If not, the guy in front can be worked with I believe.

Ask the seller if these birds have been tested for Wheaten.
What is his line is if you don't already know.
It's helpful to know the date of his birth.
Ask what color of egg he came from (If he came from a light egg, he will not have the ability to darken eggs over time.) Ask if they have an egg color chip sample of his egg.
Look at the chest coloring. Ideally 10% copper spotting there or less.
Look at the shank feathering- you need at least some.
Look at the eyes. Should be bay.
Look at the shank color- this should be slate over white skin. Can have a bit pink in hue. (No yellow skin or whitish shanks.)
Look at the comb very carefully, especially the sides and back, and run your finger on both sides. If you see any protruding side bumps like sprigs, or abnormal comb issues like a split in back etc, do not purchase. Comb flopping over/ huge thumbprints I would likely avoid as well. Don't look like those will be an issue.
Check the base of the tail and wings slowly, look for white feathers, and white underfluff. Those can be pretty hard to work out, but not impossible if you cull future gens hard.
Look at the width of his legs stance. Should be able to fit a fist there.
Ask the seller what they have been working on in the flock, and what they've worked out.
(Those will be the faults that you would not want to have in your female, and double up on.)

There are other things to look for, but don't come to mind at the moment.
Good luck!

 

[One Chick Two]

Yes, I have been checking around her keel bone and it has some flesh but is pretty boney. If I wormed them about 2 months ago, how long should I wait before trying the Valbazen? I just lost a dominique 2 mos ago that dropped down to 2lbs. Vet said she may have had an early respiratory issue but found no worms in her. I'm so worried that they have the same thing. They have not lost any weight in the 2 months I've been weighing them & feeding more protein, they have gained about .2lbs each but I just feel like they should be gaining faster...

Did you bring in some new birds at that time maybe that were not quarantined first for at least a few weeks? Were all the girls together before the dominique passed? Is she laying eggs?

Hmmm... I would be concerned about a respiratory condition too. Did the Vet say, or can you find out which respiratory he suspected? Sadly, some can be virulent, but many can be dealt with. Have you heard sneezing? Look up their nostrils with a flashlight. Do you see runny noses or issues with the eyes like bubbles? Look at her feathers, especially at base of neck at shoulders, and under wing- any snotty feathers? These remaining girls may need antibiotics possibly, so I would check all of them, look at the droppings, and examine all their keels too.

Most vets have the ability to do a fecal float test where they test the droppings for a small amount. If you have a microscope it is possible to learn to do the test yourself to check for internal parasites.

https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/363072/at-home-fecal-matter-testing-do-you-own-a-microscope

Not sure how closely wormings can be made apart, you would have to research that.

Okay, also look for lice and mites. Check vents, and under wings at dusk or night with a flashlight. Red mites only come out at night.

If none of these options looks obvious, you may need to bring her into the vet, and have some tests done. If any more pass, it would be worth having a necropsy done so you know what's going on. Some states such as Ca. offer this as a free service.

Sure hope this can be easily figured out. Best of luck!!!

 

[kristinn]

Here's better pictures of him: