Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[snowbird]

I am having a HORRID night on the homefront. Let me apologize ahead of time encase I typed anything that sounds snippy....
I will check back with ya'll tomorrow...

Lisa, the Marans are the only fowl I have ever owned where all the fowl was bought as eggs. I spent several thousand dollars over two years and would say more than 90% were culled. Let me say soon as I get back in gear will make sure you get a start in Marans. The only way we can get this Marans thing done is keep culling the faults and DQs and do not breed them forward. No one should pass the culls off on someone to work with regardless if the buyer in aware of all the faults. Everyone should also stay away from the experimental fowl that folks on the forum have been buying.

 

[Debbi]

Wynette and all, how many good quality Marans have you raised from shipped eggs. I see one of the MCCusa officering to sell STOCK in the poultry press.

Don ~ So what makes you think that they are selling their best stock? People that have advertised before, whether it be actual adult birds, chicks, or eggs, have all outright lied to my face! People selling adult birds are selling their culls, let's face it. You may get lucky in finding a decent cockerel, but if they are selling hens, chances are there is something in their background that the breeder didn't like, like poor egg color or some DQ passing forward. For me, with my very limited budget, my disability, and my danged old truck; traveling great miles to view someone's culls just doesn't seem prudent! For some of us in Marans starved territory, eggs are our ownly option! After being in this for almost 3 years now, I have made improvements in what I have, but it still needs to be seen what will be produced from what I have. So if I get junk, I am back to square one, as in WHERE DO YOU GO?? If the people that have stock good enough to sell, and they are in fact breeding these birds with some consistency, then why not buy their eggs? Let me just say, there are very few "breeders" that will tell you the unvarnished truth, and I am speaking from the top on down the line! If they have been breeding for years, should they not have a consistent lot of birds to breed and choose from? Should those eggs not produce what they are seeing in their own breeding program?? It's not like I am asking for perfection here, God knows that's not going to ever happen; but I want a good start, and have yet to get it from more than 8 different "breeders", and lots of eggs. Granted, I can't and don't hatch on a large scale as you do, but really, in all of the chicks I have hatched, you would've thought that I would have at least 2 or 3 birds by now that I felt were breeder quality! I'm about done with the BCMs, and will try to get better with the Wheatens. Again, not anyone close enough to me that I can go readily check their flock to see for myself what the birds look like, so I am depending on eggs at this time. Randy, bless his heart, has provided me with a great start in the Wheatens, and I hope to be able to add to the ONE girl I have now. So, enough of my rant, if you know of someone who has consistently bred breeder / show quality birds, with decent egg color, is honest, and is willing to sell some eggs, please advise!

 

[ashandvine]

Miss Debbi, I am sheepishly relieved by your rant. I know a woman here who spent gads of money on eggs and she has a LOT of birds to cull if she is going to cull all the faults and dqs... that's without knowing how they will lay. I did buy one of her pullets and took three cockerels, one who is food, for free. I also stood with her and pointed to bird after bird to show her what was 'wrong' with them and try to explain as much as i have learned which isn't much but more than she knew. She was upset to see these little pullets all black thinking she didn't get Marans, and then she didn't know about hackle color or clean shanks or anything. I shared to be helpful and reassuring. She might have one pullet that I saw (went there again today) that is close to sop but then there are others that are slightly or way off. And she spent gads, like I said, so am guessing newness and fads have had a lot to do with the genetics not settling down. I can't say anything for the reputation of people. They aren't one of my favorite animals. I am sorry you are nearly done with the breed. I have just started and hope to stick with it but who knows what will fall in my cereal bowl.

 

[Debbi]

Miss Debbi, I am sheepishly relieved by your rant. I know a woman here who spent gads of money on eggs and she has a LOT of birds to cull if she is going to cull all the faults and dqs... that's without knowing how they will lay. I did buy one of her pullets and took three cockerels, one who is food, for free. I also stood with her and pointed to bird after bird to show her what was 'wrong' with them and try to explain as much as i have learned which isn't much but more than she knew. She was upset to see these little pullets all black thinking she didn't get Marans, and then she didn't know about hackle color or clean shanks or anything. I shared to be helpful and reassuring. She might have one pullet that I saw (went there again today) that is close to sop but then there are others that are slightly or way off. And she spent gads, like I said, so am guessing newness and fads have had a lot to do with the genetics not settling down. I can't say anything for the reputation of people. They aren't one of my favorite animals. I am sorry you are nearly done with the breed. I have just started and hope to stick with it but who knows what will fall in my cereal bowl.

Not done with the breed, but possibly with the variety. In some cases, it has been shear ignorance on the part of the "breeder" as you suggest. Others, that should've known better or at least divulge the faults that their flock had, basically eliminated that part, and sold them as good stock, or eggs from good stock. Even when I asked very specific questions, and told them what I did not want, (after I had my first bad taste from buying eggs), I still ended up with someone's experiment or eggs from culls. Like I said, most of these were from people that had been breeding these birds for awhile. It's not like I am looking for perfection, I can work towards that myself, it is where do you get a DECENT start, with eggs or birds, that right out of the box don't have a bunch of DQs?? I was offered eggs from a TOP breeder, and I turned them down because I knew what they had produced from others that had purchased their stock, and had seen pictures! Lied to me on a constant basis, even when I knew better, so I turned them down. It's heart breaking for the smaller folks like me too, in that we become more attached to our smaller lots of birds, only to have to cull them at POL or even older when they have their adult molt. I am very well aware of what I have, and of their faults, but until I can see and get better, what choice do I have, and where the heck do you get it??? Very frustrating to say the least. The gal you are referring to has obviously been duped by fancy names and lines, and ended up with crap. Believe me, I feel her pain, but she needs to educate herself so that she doesn't keep throwing money down the crapper!

 

[RedBugPoultry]

Gosh guys, what happened to working with what you have and hatching a lot of birds and keeping the best and breeding those? I have purchased expensive eggs from breeders that appear to have really good birds and know what they are doing and when I hatch their eggs I still get the same issues I did when I purchase my first Marans eggs off eBay and ended up culling the whole batch. Don't buy my eggs because my birds are still a work in progress. I will be doing a lot of hatching this season and I will be selling the hens I choose not to keep as laying hens and of course people will end up hatching chicks from them. All people can do is try to purchase for breeders known for their quality stock asking questions before they purchase eggs. They will still be culling birds.

 

[Debbi]

Gosh guys, what happened to working with what you have and hatching a lot of birds and keeping the best and breeding those? I have purchased expensive eggs from breeders that appear to have really good birds and know what they are doing and when I hatch their eggs I still get the same issues I did when I purchase my first Marans eggs off eBay and ended up culling the whole batch. Don't buy my eggs because my birds are still a work in progress. I will be doing a lot of hatching this season and I will be selling the hens I choose not to keep as laying hens and of course people will end up hatching chicks from them. All people can do is try to purchase for breeders known for their quality stock asking questions before they purchase eggs. They will still be culling birds.

Don't get me wrong, I do follow the lead of buying the best stock you can find and go from there. Problem is, this breed is so new, relatively speaking, to this country, and many were trying to make big bucks selling a "rare breed", and that included the top breeders. So even if you did your homework back when I started, 3 years ago, the knowledge was very limited even amongst the top breeders, so bad stuff got passed on. There were also multiple inclusions of other breeds mixed into the Marans lines that got sold as Marans too, therein adding more to the kettle of problems. To me, breeding animals are open to critique according to the standards, and if I critique a bird and find really bad faults with it, so what? It's not like I am telling you that your baby is the ugliest child I have ever seen, for gosh sakes, IT'S A CHICKEN!! That is why I don't understand all the secrets and lies that have gone into the selling and promoting of this breed. We should all be helping each other, by passing on the knowledge, and only the breeding quality stock if we wish the breed to succede. Working with what you have is great, if indeed you start out with some decent stock. My first attempt, even though from supposedly great lineage, were all duds, and all but one is gone. Thankfully, I found this place to learn more and did, but that still didn't stop the deceit that went along with egg selling, even with multiple questions and pictures. Granted, you can expect a good amount of culls with anyone's breeding program, but the problems I saw went way far beyond that! From now on, unless I explicitly can trust the seller, I would prefer to put my hands on the actual birds that I am considering buying. Not likely to happen around here, too far away from me for most, so again I will have to trust. Disheartning to say the least, to be lied to, especially when all the pertinent questions have been asked, and then you end up with just so much crap, and problems you didn't have before! As with anything, with knowledge comes power, so buyers beware!

 

[math ace]

Lisa, . . . Let me say soon as I get back in gear will make sure you get a start in Marans.

I will hold you to this Don....

 

[Ray from PA]

Don ~ So what makes you think that they are selling their best stock? People that have advertised before, whether it be actual adult birds, chicks, or eggs, have all outright lied to my face! People selling adult birds are selling their culls, let's face it. You may get lucky in finding a decent cockerel, but if they are selling hens, chances are there is something in their background that the breeder didn't like, like poor egg color or some DQ passing forward. For me, with my very limited budget, my disability, and my danged old truck; traveling great miles to view someone's culls just doesn't seem prudent! For some of us in Marans starved territory, eggs are our ownly option! After being in this for almost 3 years now, I have made improvements in what I have, but it still needs to be seen what will be produced from what I have. So if I get junk, I am back to square one, as in WHERE DO YOU GO?? If the people that have stock good enough to sell, and they are in fact breeding these birds with some consistency, then why not buy their eggs? Let me just say, there are very few "breeders" that will tell you the unvarnished truth, and I am speaking from the top on down the line! If they have been breeding for years, should they not have a consistent lot of birds to breed and choose from? Should those eggs not produce what they are seeing in their own breeding program?? It's not like I am asking for perfection here, God knows that's not going to ever happen; but I want a good start, and have yet to get it from more than 8 different "breeders", and lots of eggs. Granted, I can't and don't hatch on a large scale as you do, but really, in all of the chicks I have hatched, you would've thought that I would have at least 2 or 3 birds by now that I felt were breeder quality! I'm about done with the BCMs, and will try to get better with the Wheatens. Again, not anyone close enough to me that I can go readily check their flock to see for myself what the birds look like, so I am depending on eggs at this time. Randy, bless his heart, has provided me with a great start in the Wheatens, and I hope to be able to add to the ONE girl I have now. So, enough of my rant, if you know of someone who has consistently bred breeder / show quality birds, with decent egg color, is honest, and is willing to sell some eggs, please advise!

X2,,, just looking for a good start,,, give me good body type, correctly colored legs (no yellow), maybe lack of white feathers,,, I'll take on the joy of working out the rest !!!

 

[ashandvine]

Here is the number one boy. He is in the basement in quarantine for now.




His eye is not too dark it was the flash. I believe he has too much red in his chest. His comb isn't perfect but what I want to ask about that is if you can see how the comb rests heavy on the beak? I don't know if I ever saw one resting like that and wanted to know what you all made of it. I can't say anything about where he came from or what's in his genes as I didn't see his litter mates and he came from eggs in a BYC swap. I like him though. His wings are small and it seems that everyone's tails are slow to come in.

Now I have to brave the cold for the pullets when the baby takes a nap

To clarify, I am working with I can get. I am trying to get something 'decent' and go from there but I didn't start out there. I just bought a few that someone else was culling and fell in love. oops

 

[Zanna]

Here are my breeding choices that I currently have to get started with this season. Would love any advice, input, opinions, etc. Don, the two boys are the ones I purchased at the show a couple of months ago. I will post each bird separately to help with keeping things straight..........

This is the older cock, coming 3 this year. Mahogany colour, no white underfluff, no white feathers anywhere(or brown fluff even though pics look like it), a few small middle toe feathers.....