Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[ashandvine]

I believe this is a Wheaten Marans but do not see where it states what it is supposed to be.

Not seeing it. There isn't the brown on the primaries like you taught me to look for so.... is it the legs or the hackle making you think this?

 

[snowbird]

Not seeing it. There isn't the brown on the primaries like you taught me to look for so.... is it the legs or the hackle making you think this?

There are several things saying this male has a lot of wheaten Marans blood involved.

White legs
Blended wheaten hackle
white in tail
brown in the wing triangle

I have a couple of chicks to show here as soon as they get their color. they are out of the Avatar Male and a wheaten female. I have two about two weeks old and a few more setting yet.
they should clear up some of the questions about where certain things are coming from.

 

[they'reHISchickens]

I am frustrated. 100% hatch of a dozen blue/green eggs and 25% hatch of our black marans. All are fertile. I just finished the eggtopsy and found most dead in the shell before pipping through the membrane... although one had pipped through into the air cell and one is still alive. I opened it up enough to make sure there is oxygen, wrapped it in wet towel and returned it to the incubator. We are hatching in a monster wood incubator that holds temp and humidity unbelievably well. We dry hatched this batch with no water until lockdown. Humidities were 20-40% naturally. upped to 60% at lockdown.
The last batch it was still cold so we kept humidity in the 20-30% range for the incubation and upped to 60% at lockdown.
Are there secrets to marans hatching? We don't have any better luck with broodies. In fact I won't let our marans hatch because they are frantic fanatics who trample eggs in their fury to protect. It breaks my spirit to see smashed chicks almost ready to hatch.
Any tips are welcome. I will be setting more-- DIL brought her few blue coppers so I may as well set more blacks.
They are great eating, which is good because out of 18 last time ( 48 eggs) we have 3 pullets. At least we will have our choice of roos to continue so I plan to be choosy.
Please please... suggestions welcome. I am tempted to sand off some of the coatings because we do get better hatching from the lighter ones.

 

[Wynette]

I am frustrated. 100% hatch of a dozen blue/green eggs and 25% hatch of our black marans. All are fertile. I just finished the eggtopsy and found most dead in the shell before pipping through the membrane... although one had pipped through into the air cell and one is still alive. I opened it up enough to make sure there is oxygen, wrapped it in wet towel and returned it to the incubator. We are hatching in a monster wood incubator that holds temp and humidity unbelievably well. We dry hatched this batch with no water until lockdown. Humidities were 20-40% naturally. upped to 60% at lockdown.
The last batch it was still cold so we kept humidity in the 20-30% range for the incubation and upped to 60% at lockdown.
Are there secrets to marans hatching? We don't have any better luck with broodies. In fact I won't let our marans hatch because they are frantic fanatics who trample eggs in their fury to protect. It breaks my spirit to see smashed chicks almost ready to hatch.
Any tips are welcome. I will be setting more-- DIL brought her few blue coppers so I may as well set more blacks.
They are great eating, which is good because out of 18 last time ( 48 eggs) we have 3 pullets. At least we will have our choice of roos to continue so I plan to be choosy.
Please please... suggestions welcome. I am tempted to sand off some of the coatings because we do get better hatching from the lighter ones.

Dry hatching never has worked for me. But, I know some folks that do it quite successfully. I have always felt that the altitude you're in has a lot to do with it.

In my opinion, I would not be sanding eggs to hatch them. A hen wouldn't sand them...and in all honesty, you really don't want to perpetuate genetics of unhatchable eggs in your flock. Especially if you're eventually hoping to sell hatching eggs. You'd have to tell every customer "you will need to sand these eggs prior to hatch." If I had a breeder tell me that, I'd run the other way (no offense intended).

So, if the dry hatch isn't working for you, why not try humidified hatch? 45 for days 1-18, then 70 at lockdown. Depending on your incubator...if you are using a styro model, they are known to not be as reliable as other models. OH, I think you said you had an old wooden cabinet model. There are a ton of things you can do to be sure that your hatch will go well. Make sure to thoroughly disinfect your incubator between hatches, allowing it to air dry after cleaning, thens praying with whatever disinfectant is your preferred one to use. Put several (sometimes I put up to 3) independent temperature/humidity readers in the incubator and average them. You could have a thermostat issue in the incubator. How is the air flow? Have you been hatching in this incubator all along, do other breed eggs hatch well?

 

[Wynette]

Folks, I asked for clarification about the feathering question that Math Ace and I touched on a few pages back, and was told that ANY feathering other than down the shank and the outside toe can be used as a disqualifier. This would mean feathers between the toes, on the middle toe, or even stubs where they should not be. What breeders who are showing have been finding is that judges are not DQ-ing for this, they are only counting it as a fault. It could be that it's more accepted in a feather legged variety, I'm not sure on that. But, I wanted to provide more feedback.

 

[Zanna]

Folks, I asked for clarification about the feathering question that Math Ace and I touched on a few pages back, and was told that ANY feathering other than down the shank and the outside toe can be used as a disqualifier. This would mean feathers between the toes, on the middle toe, or even stubs where they should not be. What breeders who are showing have been finding is that judges are not DQ-ing for this, they are only counting it as a fault. It could be that it's more accepted in a feather legged variety, I'm not sure on that. But, I wanted to provide more feedback.

I also got some feedback from Walt on this and feather/stub plucking is faking. I had read somewhere (I think the Marans Messenger) that a Judge had said that the plucking of stubs should be done but it sounded like cheating to me! I have also seen several birds placed well at shows that have had middle toe feathers, pullets/hens and cockerals/cocks alike

 

[Wynette]

I also got some feedback from Walt on this and feather/stub plucking is faking. I had read somewhere (I think the Marans Messenger) that a Judge had said that the plucking of stubs should be done but it sounded like cheating to me! I have also seen several birds placed well at shows that have had middle toe feathers, pullets/hens and cockerals/cocks alike

Yep, it's against the rules to pluck them, but it seems many folks do. We need to remember how new this breed is, and that is likely why the judges are overlooking the issue, but moste definitely, they won't always do so.

There have been entire books written on how to fake DQs and faults with poultry. Sad, really.

 

[marquisella]

Quote: The only thing I can think of is nutrition. How high protein are you feeding? Marans normally require a higher level of protein than "normal" chickens. That would make a difference in hatch-ability if the Marans aren't getting a feed high enough in protein....? Since all your other breeds are hatching what else could make a difference......

Other than that, Mycoplasma comes to mind. If your Marans have it, or similar problem, they will have less hatching & poorer chick health. Don't take offense, just a stab in the dark...

 

[snowbird]

Folks, I asked for clarification about the feathering question that Math Ace and I touched on a few pages back, and was told that ANY feathering other than down the shank and the outside toe can be used as a disqualifier. This would mean feathers between the toes, on the middle toe, or even stubs where they should not be. What breeders who are showing have been finding is that judges are not DQ-ing for this, they are only counting it as a fault. It could be that it's more accepted in a feather legged variety, I'm not sure on that. But, I wanted to provide more feedback.

Wynette, I can help you with the Shank Feathering on the middle toe of the Marans.

Cuttings for Defects

Breed Shape
Shanks and Toes
(C)
Langshans and Faverolles which the Marans will be grouped with when the SOP is updated.
1/2 to 1 1/2 point for each
This is in the SOP book 2001 on page #31

So this would be just a fault.

 

[they'reHISchickens]

Wynette and Marquisella, thanks for the input. Other breeds are hatching well and I have triplicate thermometers/hygrometers and I have come to LOVE the monsterbator even though it's an enormous( 1200 egg) beast.
We will look into the higher nutrition aspect. I am very familiar with different dairy cattle breeds and one should ideally feed Jerseys much differently than the Holsteins for best results. We started fermenting their scratch grains and add very very little corn, and they think it's crack. Have not yet tried fermenting the layer pellets but that may be the next step. Or adding calf manna
The most puzzling aspect is that the darker the egg, the worse the hatch rate, and the darker eggs are from the healthiest- looking hens. ( Healthier looking only because the young roo prefers the hens his own age and they look it!)
As an experiment, I just sanded a batch that I added today. We shall see what three weeks brings. Blue and Greens added as controls in the hatch.
thanks again. I am determined to find the problem.