Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[lonnyandrinda]

We
I understand your frustration. I had something happen along those lines too. I started test hatching and got tons of stuff popping up. I also did a few breeding where I think the males and females were brother/sister. I had yellow legs, split wing, lack of color and barring on some blues. I culled the culprits and aquired a male from outside my original lines. When I was breeding blues I was trying to get a nice blue male and wasn't fortunate to get one. But someone I sold some chicks to ended up with a beauty of a male, figures. What were your numbers that you hatched from your originals? They say about 1 in 10 are breeders. I have seen that first hand. More no goes than good. I was sad to see my blues go.

I didn't breed much of the "original" batch because once I knew what I was looking for I could see they were awful. Yellow legs and split wings were also in that batch now that I think of it, in addition to the mossiness, brown chests, comb sprigs, missing leg feathers, etc. Of Daisy X Big Stuff I only kept the one pullet, out of about 15 that I grew out, so yes I would say 1 in 10 is probably a regular ratio. But knowing both parents came from that stock with so many issues it made me nervous to even keep them. But then nature chose for me, and with Big Stuff showing brown in his wing I understand this is from Wheaten influence in the breeding. I can do much better with new stock I think than to keep him.

 

[maryhysong]

OK, a couple more girls.Critique away on any of my birds! This is my first time choosing breeders and I could use some advice, tho with what I am working with I might just have to do some experimenting. Both of these girls hatched Dec 2012


Orange 54 (orange because she lost her zip tie and while I'm pretty sure she goes with TX, I am not positive) Looks a bit of a mess right now with a heavy molt going on. She is way too dark, no copper at all, her eye is too dark too. She does hold her wings up nice and high, her back slope and tail angle are not as bad as another girl I have (I won't even bother posting her, her back looks like a V) Not sure on her egg color yet tho. She does have fully feathered shanks.


REd 59 is not turning out to be too bad a looker. She is not quite done molting, lots of hackle feathers still coming in. Her ear is black, but her eye is not bad. I don't think she has laid an egg yet, tho, or at least not in the recent past. Her pelvis is only one finger wide. She is related to the flaming orange boys that I posted last spring. and she has bare legs.

 

[Fowl Wench]

I just hatched out my first Marans. Out of 16 eggs, I got 13 chicks! HAPPY HAPPY HAPPY

That is so great - congratulations MikeBD2! Did you use an incubator or let the mother hatch them naturally? I am looking forward to hatching some when my girls get old enough!

 

[Wynette]

Good morning, Marans peeps!

Don't forget to get your set of eggs shipped off today or at the latest, tomorrow, for the egg show the Marans Chicken Club is hosting at the Michigan Fowl Fancier's Fowl Fest this coming weekend! Ribbons, cash prizes for "fun" contests, and a small original "Marans inspired" painting are the prizes that will be given!

PM for more info. - a set includes 3 eggs; ship via priority mail, and I'll get them included in the egg show!

It's a GREAT way to see how your eggs compare to others, and show them off a bit!

Here is the flier that was done for the show:

October 12 – 13, 2013
Michigan Poultry Fanciers
Michigan Fowl Fest ~ Birch Run, Michigan

Marans Egg Show*

Ribbons awarded for Best of each variety & People’s Choice
Trophy: Best Overall

**JUST for FUN**

$20 Cash Prize to the winner of each contest below!!

The special contests below are all based on 3-egg sets,
just as with regular egg shows. All must be
Marans eggs (or Marans cross for first contest):

Prettiest “Olive-egger” eggs

Most Heavily Speckled

Smallest set (by weight - all 3 egg weights combined)

*Anyone can enter – you need not be an MCCUSA member to enter!
$5 entry fee for each set of 3 eggs entered (eggs will be destroyed
upon end of contest, unless we are otherwise instructed)

PM with any questions, and for more information and a PDF of the entry form.
Eggs must be received by Friday, October 11 (you may also submit them in person at the show no later than 10 a.m. Saturday).​

 

[Wynette]

Hi, Mary - this pullet has a nice topline - the angle of the back should run uphill slightly from the base of the tail to the base of the neck. However, there are some issues which you will not want to breed forward. First, her eye is much too dark. This is a problem in the breed that I am seeing more and more. Also, her feathing is much too loose, appearing almost like an Orpington. If she is a hen and in molt, that may explain the loose feathering (sorry, I don't recall if she is a hen or pullet). She does have a nice underline, and has nice balance. Is she a black copper? If so, she definitely would need to be paired with a male with some flecks of copper in his breast to increase the color of the female. Okay, I just re-read your post, and you indicate she's in heavy molt, was hatched in 12/12, but you do not yet know her egg color? Am I understanding correctly that she has not yet begun to lay?




Red 59 has issues as well...wing carriage is too high (much less common that too low) and topline isn't great. Also, tail is a bit high. But, she does have nice eye color. The clean shanks is almost a deal breaker (for me anyway) and she's too dark, as well. However, her feathers are tighter than the other female, which I do like. She also appears to have a nice underline.

If they are all that you have, maybe the thing to do is pair them up and do single matings to see what you'll get? If you pair each with a male that has features that offset the negatives in the females, you will move forward next generation.

 

[ashandvine]

I am struggling with some things here:
breeding what you have and breeding to sop versus breeding for big birds that lay great eggs. I am not sure how these concepts are going to work to create a bird that performs well on the farm and not just in the cage. I have to ask how many of you that are winning with your birds for the bird itself are eating their birds? And what's your weights on those birds you do eat? I am not trying to be offensive at all, so I am sorry if this bothers folks. I do live on a small farm and am trying to make sure I am not blinded by a pretty bird pursuit and end up losing out at home. I don't think I have the resources at this time to have two pens, one for show and one for eating, hence the struggle

 

[Wynette]

I am struggling with some things here:
breeding what you have and breeding to sop versus breeding for big birds that lay great eggs. I am not sure how these concepts are going to work to create a bird that performs well on the farm and not just in the cage. I have to ask how many of you that are winning with your birds for the bird itself are eating their birds? And what's your weights on those birds you do eat? I am not trying to be offensive at all, so I am sorry if this bothers folks. I do live on a small farm and am trying to make sure I am not blinded by a pretty bird pursuit and end up losing out at home. I don't think I have the resources at this time to have two pens, one for show and one for eating, hence the struggle

Nutshell: You need to make a choice.

You can have a nice exhibition line that also is good for eating the culls, but when you choose for SOP, you are potentially choosing AWAY from egg laying. Especially with Marans (see below). If you're talking about another breed that has been accepted for much longer, you might be to the place where they ar breeding so consistently that you CAN choose for egg size.

I think you CAN have the best of both worlds, but you're never going to have an optimal egg layer and show bird all wrapped into one. At least, not in your (or my) lifetimes. That is why there are hatcheries. Hatcheries choose breeders for egg laying, meat qualities, more "farm bred" choices. If you have one pen, and you must have a breed that gives tons of eggs and also can be used for meat, Marans are just not the breed you'll want to keep. The very nature of the Marans breed is such that they do not lay quadzillions of eggs; the longer the egg is in the repro tract, the darker it is, basically. So, we actually WANT them to lay fewer eggs so they are darker.

 

[ashandvine]

I wasn't talking about egg production. I should have been clearer that I meant good egg production as in good color for a Marans. I am much more concerned with having the occasional good show bird and great birds for the farm that are savvy and friendly and gorgeous of course but also which are meaty but still lay a dark egg. Sorry for that confusion. I don't need a lot of eggs either. How many can one person eat anyway? I am concerned with losing size and utility.

 

[Wynette]

Gotcha.

Size is important to me, too, and it's one of the main criteria I use when I choose my breeders. Even if a bird has very good type, if it's not what I deem to be on the high end of the SOP or larger, I don't keep it. I guess I'm confused by what you're asking, ashandvine. If size is important, make it a criteria that you use when choosing your keepers.

You stated, "...breeding to sop versus breeding for big birds that lay great eggs..."

Why are you feeling that you cannot do both in one set of birds? There's a whole lot of us on this thread alone that do just that.

 

[Chad Cool]

Are Cuckoo Marans supposed to have feathers going down there legs? I can't find any to purchase.