Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Ihilani Coffee]

So mahogany is the really dark red then?

This cockerel was recently at the PNPA show and I believe part of the trio that was reserve best in show for all breeds. This is also mahogany, or proper BCM coloring? Zanna, being a fellow horseperson when I see what you are describing as mahogany I see the horse color mahogany bay.

 

[Zanna]

This cockerel was recently at the PNPA show and I believe part of the trio that was reserve best in show for all breeds. This is also mahogany, or proper BCM coloring? Zanna, being a fellow horseperson when I see what you are describing as mahogany I see the horse color mahogany bay.

I saw this boy at the show as well and I believe him to have correct copper colour, at least my interpretation of it. On my screen here, he looks darker than he did at the show. Lighting and background also have an effect on how a colour looks so I find this difficult to interpret. From what remember, this cock and the other exhibitors both had nice copper colour in person, I think new shiny copper penny.

Never have called a horse Mahogany bay, just bay so can't address that one

 

[Maggiesdad]

Some of the ones I'm watching. I found it interesting the different tones of red on the cockerel in the pics taken just seconds apart. Feel free to criticize.

 

[Runawaylobster]

Some of the ones I'm watching. I found it interesting the different tones of red on the cockerel in the pics taken just seconds apart. Feel free to criticize.

pretty birds !!! love them!

 

[maryhysong]

Wynette, Will post on the selling the Marans when we know that there is a problem with the adult stock. Will state what I think for the last time here on BYC. I think that knowingly selling eggs and stock from Marans that have DQ that will breed forward is basically FRAUD and no one should have to pay good money when Marans are sold with the owner knowing they will produce Culls.
The selling of Cull Marans as good breeder fowl is the largest problem with new people trying to get a decent start in Marans. If we know our line is producing mostly cull young fowl we should cull them out of our Marans flock. There is no way we can improve the BC Marans if we continually sell the culls to anyone willing to buy.
Ethics is very important in my life so would hope it would be elsewhere.

I wish more sellers had your knowledge of poultry and Marans especially as well as your ethics! I don't plan to sell chicks until I have hatched my own and seen how they grow out, then repeat the best combinations for chicks for sale; that way I can say, well these *should* grow up to look like their older siblings.

Yes, he was from some Marans coming from eggs I bought 4 year ago. I should also say that you will get Straw and Mahogany from this same bloodline.

I agree with a post earlier saying that the BC Marans will not breed true. Anyone saying they have never had a wheat or Mahogany hatch from their BC Marans just has not hatched very many. The straw are few and far between but they still will show up. All three of these colors are supposed to show up as this was the reason they did not go into the APA as Brownreds.

Do you believe we will ever be able to get to a point where we could have true breeding strains or lines that don't throw the other colors? Or is that going to be genetically impossible?

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

I saw this boy at the show as well and I believe him to have correct copper colour, at least my interpretation of it. On my screen here, he looks darker than he did at the show. Lighting and background also have an effect on how a colour looks so I find this difficult to interpret. From what remember, this cock and the other exhibitors both had nice copper colour in person, I think new shiny copper penny.

Never have called a horse Mahogany bay, just bay so can't address that one

Thanks...I thought he was gorgeous and took the photos for comparison of varying shades of copper. To me a new penny is pale and hardly copper at all (they are mostly zinc these days).

 

[Wynette]

Wynette, Will post on the selling the Marans when we know that there is a problem with the adult stock. Will state what I think for the last time here on BYC. I think that knowingly selling eggs and stock from Marans that have DQ that will breed forward is basically FRAUD and no one should have to pay good money when Marans are sold with the owner knowing they will produce Culls.
The selling of Cull Marans as good breeder fowl is the largest problem with new people trying to get a decent start in Marans. If we know our line is producing mostly cull young fowl we should cull them out of our Marans flock. There is no way we can improve the BC Marans if we continually sell the culls to anyone willing to buy.
Ethics is very important in my life so would hope it would be elsewhere.

Don, this is simply hogwash. You cannot know what a bird may pop up with in each & every chick that is hatched. To say it is "fraud" to sell chicks or hatching eggs that "may" result in a cull is seriously outrageous! EVERY flock produces culls! Even breeds that have been bred and accepted by the APA for many years! Oh my word, please, folks, THINK when your read this stuff. This negativity does nothing to move the breed forward.

you will get Straw and Mahogany from this same bloodline.

I agree with a post earlier saying that the BC Marans will not breed true. Anyone saying they have never had a wheat or Mahogany hatch from their BC Marans just has not hatched very many. The straw are few and far between but they still will show up.

I have never hatched a straw hackled bird from my Black Copper Marans. Mahogany, yes, but not straw.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Wynette, Please do not try and turn this into something where you say I am attacking you. I know you are well aware of what I am talking about when I say NO ONE should be selling eggs or chicks where they know there will be a high percentage of culls. You know I am talking about Side Sprigs, Split Wings and any of the major DQs.
Why is it that when someone is truthful and trys to help the new people keep from making mistakes you state your comment that negativity does not help.

My last comment is Honesty and being Ethical never has drove anyone away from the Marans breed and never will. I still think there is a place on this forum for someone to be honest with the New Marans people and not expect anything in return.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
Mary, I believe we will always have the different colors of Hackles in the BC Marans, I believe it is all in the Genetics. Not saying it would be impossible , but most will not spend the time needed to breed them to be true BC.

 

[Wynette]

Wynette, Please do not try and turn this into something where you say I am attacking you. I know you are well aware of what I am talking about when I say NO ONE should be selling eggs or chicks where they know there will be a high percentage of culls. You know I am talking about Side Sprigs, Split Wings and any of the major DQs.
Why is it that when someone is truthful and trys to help the new people keep from making mistakes you state your comment that negativity does not help.

My last comment is Honesty and being Ethical never has drove anyone away from the Marans breed and never will. I still think there is a place on this forum for someone to be honest with the New Marans people and not expect anything in return.

Don, my issue with what you say is that - AGAIN - this bird was accepted 2 years ago! We know the wheaten was bred into the Black Copper in the beginning and that many breeders are still working to remove that flaw from their flocks. We also know the Penedesenca was used in the beginning...this is where the sprigs and other issues are coming from. Do you feel it is "unethical" to sell hatching eggs if you have seen a sprig in your flock? Come on, sprigs happen. Split wing happens. I'm not saying you shouldn't cull for it - for goodness' sake, I am one of the heaviest cullers out there. But, we have to start somewhere. I hatched a silver penciled rock chick that developed a side sprig last year that I culled - does that mean I shouldn't be selling hatching eggs?

I don't understand your last paragraph - maybe I am naive but I don't see dishonesty by breeders; I see folks CALLING themselves breeders that shouldn't be. Folks that are not educated and have no experience with breeding, selling on Craigslist and eBay. Again, maybe I've naive but I just don't know that there are all that many folks out there trying to take advantage of people. Are there? I guess that's where someone who is looking for stock needs to remember to ASK QUESTIONS. Know what the "right" and "wrong" answer ought to be. There is ALWAYS a place for honesty, and opinions. Just because you may disagree with me, it sure doesn't mean that you are right, nor does it mean I am right. It means we have differing opinions, period.