Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[3riverschick]

This is really good advice! I'm was planning on making little business cards to put in my egg cartons - I'll be sure to add something about the meat spots. Since I don't eat eggs, I have not tasted mine nor have I inspected very many of the Marans' eggs. My neighbor says they are the best eggs he's ever eaten.

I also wanted to add that this thread has been very helpful to me. I got 3 Marans hens that are very nice birds and regular layers. Their eggs are gorgeous. I thought about getting a BCM rooster and having some chicks. However, after reading what you all have written, I realize my hens have a lot of faults. The person I got the hens from culled the "rejects" and now they are mine. That is OK though, because I really like them and they have a great life here! I'll leave the breeding to the experts.

Wait a minute! if all you want is dark eggs layer, buy a cock from a very dark egg laying strain and breed him to your hens. Make more layers. Just don't sell the hens as anything but layers and don't sell the cocks for breeding. There's no reason why you can't breed a nice laying flock. Plus, you can show the eggs and have blast doing that. It's a lot of fun. I have 3 blue ribbons from when I had my Salmon Marans. Just pick three of your darkest eggs, they should be a similar in size shape and darkness as you can get. Send them carefully packed to the show with a 5.oo entry fee. An APA judge judges the eggs and the Club send you any prizes you win. plus usually they post pics of the winners online.
And...if you get a top quality cock from a very dark egg laying strain, you can upgrade your flock while you are breeding for darker eggs. You'd be surprised how many nice Marans flocks today upgraded to where they are now. Here's what you do.
Check the show stats for both poultry shows and egg shows. you are looking for breeders who win at both.
Make a list of them. Then search around and find out if they are inbreeding. You want an inbred male for this.
Buy one from them. Tell them you need foundation quality. Breed him to your girls. The chicks will be 1/2him.
Then take his daughters and breed them back to him. Easy Peasey. They will be 3/4 him.
Breed the granddaughters back to your foundation male ( their grandfather. They will be (7/8) him. . T
his is classic poultry breeding , not crazy inbreeding. has been used over 100 yrs. to upgrade stock.
Now take the great granddaughters and breed them back to a son of the foundation male. This is actually
a linebreeding and keeps your birds from becoming too inbred. That son is 1/2 the foundation cock mated to
a 7/8ths foundation cock female. See how easy it is?
Now you can do this on the female side mating her sons back to the original mother for 3 generations just like you did the males.
Finally you get to the generation where you have a boy resulting from the breeding of son of foundation cock to
his great granddaughter ...and... daughter of foundation girl bred to great grandson.
Breed these two together and start the whole process over again. ad infinitium.
Keep this up and your birds will be cookie cutter images of each other. You will have "set type".
--------------------
Here's the short version.
1. Get ahold of Ernie Haire at http://marans2xl.com/ and buy a real nice foundation cock from him. Tell him I sent you.
2. Breed him to your girls and keep the best son. (Generation 1, called F1)
3. Breed the daughters back to Ernie's bird. ( Generation 2 , called F2)
4. Breed the best daughters back to Ernie's bird once again. ( Generation 3, called F3)
5. Breed the best daughters back to Ernie's birds' son. ( Generation 4, called F4)
By now you will know what you're doing , be winning at the shows ,and the rest will become self-evident. And eggs should be very dark!
Actually, if you choose the best birds wisely each generation, you should be placing at the shows by F2 or F3.
Look at the winning Ernie has done in the big shows like Bluebonnet and the National Specialty. Just lovely type. Also see the winning of Best Continental? There are lots of competitive breeds in the Continental group. Besting them is a real feat! Plus he is winning at the egg shows. Now when you do this outcross you will lose some egg color in the F1 generation. You will get it back in F2 and F3. Not to worry.
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart and the Light Sussex in western PA, USA

 

[desertmarcy]

Here's the short version.
1. Get ahold of Ernie Haire at http://marans2xl.com/ and buy a real nice foundation cock from him. Tell him I sent you.
2. Breed him to your girls and keep the best son. (Generation 1, called F1)
3. Breed the daughters back to Ernie's bird. ( Generation 2 , called F2)
4. Breed the best daughters back to Ernie's bird once again. ( Generation 3, called F3)
5. Breed the best daughters back to Ernie's birds' son. ( Generation 4, called F4)
By now you will know what you're doing , be winning at the shows ,and the rest will become self-evident. And eggs should be very dark!
Actually, if you choose the best birds wisely each generation, you should be placing at the shows by F2 or F3.
Look at the winning Ernie has done in the big shows like Bluebonnet and the National Specialty. Just lovely type. Also see the winning of Best Continental? There are lots of competitive breeds in the Continental group. Besting them is a real feat! Plus he is winning at the egg shows. Now when you do this outcross you will lose some egg color in the F1 generation. You will get it back in F2 and F3. Not to worry.
Best Regards,
Karen Tewart and the Light Sussex in western PA, USA

I looked at their show winners on the 2XL website, and almost all the birds look like they have level backs. I have not seen their birds in person, and photos can be deceiving, but ??

 

[3riverschick]

I looked at their show winners on the 2XL website, and almost all the birds look like they have level backs. I have not seen their birds in person, and photos can be deceiving, but ??

Hi Desertmarcy !

It may look that way on the pics, but the judges are seeing something better at the shows.
The level of the wins and the largeness of the shows they win at seems to say that.
The Marans National and Bluebonnet are huge Marans shows. Bluebonnet is a huge
show period ,so to place in the Group is a big thing.
Best,
Karen

 

[DMRippy]

Not knocking them, but we have seen lots of winners on this thread and many have had DQ's. Winning a show does not equate to a quality bird. I have learned that the hard way from several breeders.

 

[maryhysong]

Not knocking them, but we have seen lots of winners on this thread and many have had DQ's. Winning a show does not equate to a quality bird. I have learned that the hard way from several breeders.

And just because someone is winning at shows does not mean the chicks you buy from them will.

 

[huntseat]

Why would DQ'd birds win at shows? Are judges not up-to-date on the SOP?

You can't blame people for giving the judges what they want. Look at what the horse industry turned into by giving the judges what they wanted.

 

[Localheronow]

If you work hard and long to get to your f4 birds and have some show quality are you going to sell to the general public ? If you can be lucky and have show quality before that then it is luck.

 

[snowbird]

Karen, I will send you a PM shortly explaining some of this to you as I think you are very misinformed regarding showing Poultry. Don

 

[maryhysong]

I posted this cockerel before, and there was a question about if he is roach backed. I am not sure. Feeling his back it does feel rounded from side to side, but there is not a hump or anything from neck to tail. I have taken quite a few pictures in different positions and lighting. These are all the same bird, hatched in Jan so almost 5 months old. Opinions please!

 

[DMRippy]

Why would DQ'd birds win at shows? Are judges not up-to-date on the SOP?

You can't blame people for giving the judges what they want. Look at what the horse industry turned into by giving the judges what they wanted.

You tell me! No idea why unless they were the only ones there or like you said the Judges didn't know but some of the DQ's I have seen on winning birds would be DQ on any breed.

Sad really and then they go home and sell them as SHOW WINNING..... when they should never have won anything.