Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Zanna]

thank you @downtheriver !

Are there any bad things that pop up regularly with Marans when inbreeding? Like crossed beaks, or whatever?

This is only my third year hatching Marans, and I haven't had any genetic issues... but I haven't done any in breeding at all.

If there are any recessive genes, the breeding pair must both have it to show the problem. I had been working with my own line for several years and introduced a new Cockeral from someone else's line. Bred him to several of my hens and they produced some beautiful offspring, nice dark eggs, very exciting!!! Next season, bred the Cock back to four of his best daughters. Started hatching white chicks with the bcm coloured chicks. The new cockeral had a recessive white gene which he passed on to 50% of his offspring unknown to me until I did the father/daughter matings. When breeding him back to his daughters that had inherited the gene, 25% white chicks hatched Some told me I had been given a gift, do something with it or just cull the whites, the correctly coloured ones were still BCM and the whites would still produce BCM if bred to another male without the gene (but 50% of all offspring would carry the recessive white). It is my personal opinion that BCM have hidden genes and it is important to inbreed so that we can identify and get rid of them. I am currently test mating two of this cockerals sons and hoping that one did not inherit the gene. If one is ok, I will be breeding him back to 3 of my original hens that I know do not have the gene, essentially starting over but knowing I have rid my flock of this unwanted (by me) gene. If they both have the gene, I will still breed the best one back to the original hens and then have to test mate any breedworthy cockerals again and eventually get one that does not have the gene. Only then will I feel I am on my way again. My birds have great type, colour and egg colour is getting darker and darker so they are well worth working with. Not giving up and not getting another cockeral for the chance that, heaven forbid, I incorporate yet another hidden recessive and spend another two seasons breeding to find out. There is comfort for me in knowing what I have. It is just going to take time and after all, they're just chickens Again, just my opinions and experiences.

 

[Alaskan]

@Zanna

Thank you for the example.. that helped to make it more clear for me.


Talking about white.... I think i read on this thread that it is best to select for chicks that hatch out with no white on their wings?

 

[Zanna]

@Zanna

Thank you for the example.. that helped to make it more clear for me.


Talking about white.... I think i read on this thread that it is best to select for chicks that hatch out with no white on their wings?

I do not believe that to be true. Any white on the wings should molt out with their juvie molt and is expected in the chicks. Any white on wings of adult feathering is not good and would be a cull in my flock.

 

[Lucky KY Chicks]

Some told me I had been given a gift, do something with it or just cull the whites, the correctly coloured ones were still BCM and the whites would still produce BCM if bred to another male without the gene (but 50% of all offspring would carry the recessive white).

All the chicks from a recessive white would carry recessive white just so you know for breeding

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

thank you @downtheriver !

Are there any bad things that pop up regularly with Marans when inbreeding? Like crossed beaks, or whatever?

This is only my third year hatching Marans, and I haven't had any genetic issues... but I haven't done any in breeding at all.

Recessive white can be an issue, as zanna referred to. Wheaten will show itself in most lines and is a real bugger to get rid of. White tail/toe feathers that show up after you've raised them for 8-12 months is a heartbreaker. Brachydactyly in feather-legged breeds also. High/squirrel tails in general are an issue (not just with inbreeding). Any close breeding system (inbred or closely linebred) will simply concentrate the genetics, good AND bad.

 

[Ihilani Coffee]

Hi everyone! I have some Black Copper Marans chicks coming in a week! Yay!!!

But then I mentioned it to my feed store guy this morning and he said that they're terrible layers. Boo!!! Is that right?

He sold me some chicks last year that I swear lay at least an egg every day no matter what the weather - I think they are BSLs - so he has high standards on quantity. I don't need a high production one but now I'm curious if I'm only going to get a couple eggs a week from each hen... Or less.

What is your experience?

Some might be called "terrible" layers by someone that just has hatchery sexlinks that lay for two years straight through their molt, etc. Some of mine lay about 5/week as pullets, then slow down. Others lay well for some weeks and then take a mini break and start up again. The color on those goes up and down, darker after the break, etc. We have one line that lays 5-6 on the Marans egg chart, another line that lays 6-7, so I'm not complaining. IMO the only way to know what color Marans eggs are in photos is to show the eggs with the Marans chart in the photo. This way anyone with a chart can know for sure what your eggs really look like, as monitors/screens will show the same photo differently.

 

[Zanna]

All the chicks from a recessive white would carry recessive white just so you know for breeding

Yes, thank you! I am a genetics "idiot" but this whole project has taught me a lot!

 

[DMRippy]

Just for clarification......

Not ALL chicks from a bird that carries Recessive white will have the gene..... only half and you can't tell which ones have it and the ones that don't. It takes 2 copies for recessive white to express. If you don't have white birds in your flock and you have white chicks pop up you have 2 birds carrying the gene. Your sire and at lease one dam. It is very hard to remove and you have to do test matings to find out if your bird carries it.

 

[Lucky KY Chicks]

Just for clarification......

Not ALL chicks from a bird that carries Recessive white will have the gene..... only half and you can't tell which ones have it and the ones that don't.  It takes 2 copies for recessive white to express.  If you don't have white birds in your flock and you have white chicks pop up you have 2 birds carrying the gene.  Your sire and at lease one dam.  It is very hard to remove and you have to do test matings to find out if your bird carries it.

Agree completely, I was referring to when you breed the white birds themselves

 

[DMRippy]

If you breed white to white they will breed true. Personannly I would not intentionally breed a white into my coppers.