Black Copper Marans discussion thread

A purple sheen does not mean there is anything wrong with a bird or nutrient deficiency. Its simply what color refraction you see. I have a bird that I see a purple sheen on that 6 people have said they can't see the sheen. A sheen color is in the eye of the beholder and some of it depends on the lighting. If my hair is shiny it doesn't mean I'm sick. It means my hair is healthy with plenty of vitamins and nutrients. Dull hair means damage and maybe needs a wash. Feathers aren't much different.
Didn't mean to stir the pot. I did some research into sheen and it looks like the late Geneticist Dr. Clive Carefoot stated that his theory on the purple barring is that is is caused by irregular feather growth due to poor nutrition, ill health, etc. There may be some people that confused purple barring for purple sheen because most of what I am finding confirms that sheen color is more likely due to genetics although one report did confirm that stressing bird that didn't have purple sheen previously can get it.

I found a comparison of Hatchery Australorps to Show line Australorps and on the same feed the show line had the sought after green sheen and the hatchery line the purple sheen.

I also found that one breeder selected for red sheen in Black Chabos.

So selection either way will improve sheen color one way or another. The recommendation is to never cross a purple sheen with a green sheen if you want to maintain your green sheen though. Once it is in the line is hard to get out.

One source indicated that purple sheen is caused by too much black in a mating so in the in black varieties the birds with purple sheen also have a tendency to completely black legs, completely black beaks, and mulberry colored combs.

Birds that were carrying recessive color patterns were reported to have less green sheen that those that with out recessive color patterns. Birds with white in the wing tips where reported to have more green sheen.

Observation on sheen with respect to silver bases, gold bases, mahogany, and autosomal red were also noted.
 
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Can anyone please make comments on this Roo, about 5mo old. Tails just coming back in. I've got him with my mixed flock but have 8 cockerel and 7 pullets that are only about 2 months old. Should I keep him or take 1 or 2 from the young ones when they mature. Was hoping he would be fine, that way I won't be breeding sister to brother.
Can you get a pic that's a bit more clear? It almost looks like he has side sprigs on the back of the comb. Does he?
 
Can you get a pic that's a bit more clear? It almost looks like he has side sprigs on the back of the comb. Does he?

No the comb is straight. He's got a nice black chest. The main concerns were his colouring (no white just the lighter hackle)and his eyes aren't as golden as the hens but not black
 
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I am not expert on sheen, but my understanding is that black based birds on a gold base have a very strong green sheen while those that are build on a silver base don't.  Does anyone on this group breed both Black Copper Marans and Silver Birchen Marans.  If she can you get any side by side photos to show the difference in sheen?

My understanding is that the purple sheen is the result of a nutrient deficiency.  Is that correct?  

Having said all of that I know that the Green sheen used to not be allowd per the standard either.  A breeder in Germany said in a publication that the breeders in his country would get some with out the sheen but they were never very good quality birds so the breeder just disregarded the no green sheen part of the standard and breed the birds the way their experience taught them that the breed should be bred.  The Marans didn't get vary many high marks in the show so not many people wanted to show them favoring breeds that would win shows.  Then the standard was changed to allow the green sheen and the Marans started to get higher marks and attract more breeders.  

So...having said that an APA judge said that if he sees a bird BCM with the green sheen that it doesn't look right to him.  So we have done a 180 deg turn on the green sheen from it being a defect to it being allowed to no where with out the green sheen your bird is viewed as off or something missing that they can't put their finger on.

As for the purple sheen, it is something that they can put their finger on as being off and it will detract for the over all appearance of the bird in the eyes of the judge.  

Yes,  I agree that the purple sheen is pretty, I saw a photos of an all black bird (Ayam Cemanti?, other?) that had a very vibrant mix of green and purple sheen among his tail sickles.  It was a pretty cool photo, but even though blue is one of my favorite colors, if my skin were to turn blue it would not be cool because it would mean that I had an oxygen deficiency. So purple is bad not because the standard choose to go with another color, but because a healthy birds shouldn't have it.  



A purple sheen does not mean there is anything wrong with a bird or nutrient deficiency. Its simply what color refraction you see. I have a bird that I see a purple sheen on that 6 people have said they can't see the sheen. A sheen color is in the eye of the beholder and some of it depends on the lighting. If my hair is shiny it doesn't mean I'm sick. It means my hair is healthy with plenty of vitamins and nutrients. Dull hair means damage and maybe needs a wash. Feathers aren't much different.



Didn't mean to stir the pot.  I did some research into sheen and it looks like the late Geneticist Dr. Clive Carefoot stated that his theory on the purple barring is that is is caused by irregular feather growth due to poor nutrition, ill health, etc.  There may be some people that confused purple barring for purple sheen because most of what I am finding confirms that sheen color is more likely due to genetics although one report did confirm that stressing bird that didn't have purple sheen previously can get it.     

I found a comparison of Hatchery Australorps to Show line Australorps and on the same feed the show line had the sought after green sheen and the hatchery line the purple sheen.

I also found that one breed selected for red sheen in B[COLOR=1E0A02]lack Chabos.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=1E0A02]So selection either way will improve sheen color one way or another. The recommendation is to never cross a purple sheen with a green sheen if you want to maintain your green sheen though.  Once it is in the line is hard to get out.  [/COLOR]

[COLOR=1E0A02]One source indicated that purple sheen is caused by too much black in a mating so in the in black varieties the birds with purple sheen also have a tendency to completely black legs, completely black beaks, and mulberry colored combs.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=1E0A02]Birds that were carrying recessive color patterns were reported to have less green sheen that those that with out recessive color patterns.  Birds with white in the wing tips where reported to have more green sheen.  [/COLOR]

[COLOR=1E0A02]Observation on sheen with respect to silver bases, gold bases, mahogany, and autosomal red were also noted. [/COLOR]

Thank you for all the information every one stated. Olive is a great cockerel! He loves my lap and treats! He's super sweet! Comes when he is called... Anyways, his coloring is mostly green very faint purple. However, he does have a purple. Not as visiblely noticeable by others like husband
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I swear I feed him very well! I treat all my girls and him the best I can. A bunch of seeds, Greek yogurt, ACV , veggies , ......... Plus he free ranges during the day. I'm confused now ! The purple is poor nutrition? What would I give all of them if that is a true statement. I did have a too mutt that was most colors but a ton of purple !! He dropped dead out of no where! Like he had a heart attack. Are you saying its a internal problem that is making him have a tid bit of purple?
I did order these eggs. So I'm curious if I should use another company or find someone near me.
Anyone in central/ Northern California that sells eggs or hens? Pm or post on thread. Thanks a million everyone! I love him either way! He's my 3 rd Roo and by far the most docile!!
 
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Thank you for all the information every one stated. Olive is a great cockerel! He loves my lap and treats! He's super sweet! Comes when he is called... Anyways, his coloring is mostly green very faint purple. However, he does have a purple. Not as visiblely noticeable by others like husband
1f61c.png
I swear I feed him very well! I treat all my girls and him the best I can. A bunch of seeds, Greek yogurt, ACV , veggies , ......... Plus he free ranges during the day. I'm confused now ! The purple is poor nutrition? What would I give all of them if that is a true statement. I did have a too mutt that was most colors but a ton of purple !! He dropped dead out of no where! Like he had a heart attack. Are you saying its a internal problem that is making him have a tid bit of purple?
I did order these eggs. So I'm curious if I should use another company or find someone near me.
Anyone in central/ Northern California that sells eggs or hens? Pm or post on thread. Thanks a million everyone! I love him either way! He's my 3 rd Roo and by far the most docile!!

I don't think the purple is necessarily from poor nutrition. My australorps have a green sheen and my marans have a bit more blue/ purple sheen to them. There is no difference in their diets it's just different genes. Perhaps the purple sheen CAN be caused by poor nutrition but that certainly isn't always the cause.
 
.... I'm confused now ! The purple is poor nutrition? What would I give all of them if that is a true statement. I did have a too mutt that was most colors but a ton of purple !! He dropped dead out of no where! Like he had a heart attack. Are you saying its a internal problem that is making him have a tid bit of purple?
In the very little bit of on-line research that I did yesterday I didn't find any studies or hard research to support purple sheen being caused by poor nutrient.

Previous hear say lead me to believe that but the research is lean towards it being caused by genetics. The sheen is caused by the structure of the feather and the way it reflects light. White feathers can have the same structure as black feathers and reflect light in the same way but you can only seen the sheen if you have a black base for the sheen to form on. The basic structure of the feather appears to be genetic. Environmental factors do effect feather quality so the researchers are still looking into diets, etc but so far all that they are finding is that birds on the same diet from different lines can show different colored sheen. What I take from that is that an improved diet can't correct or change the sheen if they are from a line that has the undesirable sheen breed into it. I am still a little confused on this those. If seems that there are not absolutes on what cause the sheen but observations that if you breed birds with green sheen you are more likely to get offspring with green sheen and if you breed birds with purple sheen you are more likely to get offspring with purple sheen.
 
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 In the very little bit of on-line research that I did yesterday I didn't find any studies or hard research to support purple sheen being caused by poor nutrient.  

Previous hear say lead me to believe that but the research is lean towards it being caused by genetics.   The sheen is caused by the structure of the feather and the way it reflects light. White feathers can have the same structure as black feathers and reflect light in the same way but you can only seen the sheen if you have a black base for the sheen to form on. The basic structure of the feather appears to be genetic.  Environmental factors do effect feather quality so the researchers are still looking into diets, etc but so far all that they are finding is that birds on the same diet from different lines can show different colored sheen.  What I take from that is that an improved can't correct change the sheen if they from a line that has it breed in.  I am still a little confused on this those.  If seems that there are not absolutes and what cause the sheen but observations that if you breed birds with green sheen you are more likly to get offspring with green sheen and if you breed birds with purple sheen you are more likely to get offspring with purple sheen.  

If I breed him with my beautiful Austrlorp would that kick out some purple? She's one of my favorite hens! Seems a lot like olive l. Very docile . I definitely love these two breeds and BR. Great personalities !! I do breed but only when I want to start up incubator or one of the girls goes Broody. I don't want to buy anymore eggs from the company I used. I need to find a local breeder. Almost impossible around here! I have faith that I treat him well and he just got the wrong genetics . If anyone on this thread sells eggs let me know. Thank you! I was feeling like I was not doing my job right! He did come in the dirtiest egg I have ever seen in my life. I don't know what conditions the hen was laying in?! it did not look good ! I'm surprised he even hatched. Even a day early. The other two made it to lock down but lost them both
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so bummed! They were fully grown just didn't turn.
 
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If I breed him with my beautiful Austrlorp would that kick out some purple? She's one of my favorite hens! Seems a lot like olive l. Very docile . I definitely love these two breeds and BR. Great personalities !! I do breed but only when I want to start up incubator or one of the girls goes Broody. I don't want to buy anymore eggs from the company I used. I need to find a local breeder. Almost impossible around here! I have faith that I treat him well and he just got the wrong genetics . If anyone on this thread sells eggs let me know. Thank you! I was feeling like I was not doing my job right! He did come in the dirtiest egg I have ever seen in my life. I don't know what conditions the hen was laying in?! it did not look good ! I'm surprised he even hatched. Even a day early. The other two made it to lock down but lost them both
1f613.png
so bummed! They were fully grown just didn't turn.

That sounds like delving into your own research. There is one sure way to find out. Make the cross and see what you get.
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I have a BCM hen that just started laying. This is about the 5th egg that she has layed. Should I cull her! If I breed her with a cockerel from a dark egg line will it improve color in future generations?
 

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