Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[OneMountainAcres]

I found someone to take my culls! Now I don't have to raise them out myself. Not that I mind, I just have a bunch of babies to grow out and will be running out of room before long (just hatched about 30 CCL babies). I know that they plan to raise them up and eat them so they will not be contributing to any gene pools

 

[schmooscontrol]

I have 2 blue and 2 black French copper maran hens covered by a black French copper maran rooster and a few of the chicks I hatched from them are clean legged. Is this normal?

 

[Red Banks]

My chicks are growing and I really like what I see. I will post pictures for a critique from the more knowledgeable soon. I have been busy and I am just trying to enjoy these chicks without the necessary but evil critical eye. I have plenty of time for that and don't want to agonize every day about where they fall short. I have been given some good advice by Happy Frenchman and others here and hopefully I will learn how to breed what I want to see in my BCMs.

The real reason for this post is I have a question. My chicks have all feathered out except one. It has been very slow to feather, had a bare back for a long time. It's feathers are very black, very soft, lovely really. Anyone familiar with slow feathering?

 

[scflock]

Okay, you may have sent them to the Lima, OH show?  There were 14 entries in that show, and I am told the entries were overall quite nice!  Let me know if this was the show you sent your entry to and how you did.  Hope you came out on top!

It's "carnation," not "coronation."  If you are seeing a few more small points coming out at the blade end, then it's very likely this is the carnation comb INFLUENCE.  Many breeders used Penedesenca to improve egg color years ago (which I find interesting, since I've personally never seen a Penedenca egg that was darker than a Marans, but perhaps at one time they were).  It can crop up generations later after not seeing it for awhile, unfortunately. 

We've been talking on other boards for years now about folk breeding birds that are not to the SOP.  There are several opinions out there, and it doesn't matter what mine is - YOU need to be happy with what you decide to do. 

However, I do feel a responsibility to explain where those of us breeding to the SOP are coming from.  By propagating birds with DQ issues (such as the carnation comb issue), it's putting more poorly bred birds out there, for more folks to pick up & breed MORE poorly bred birds from.  Many of these folks will eventually wish to get really serious about exhibiting, and find that the stock they've invested many years in will not work for exhibition, and they end up needing to start over.  We see this time & time again.  Please do not misunderstand me.  I'm not attempting to put down your birds at all.  Without lots more pictures, or video, or (best case scenario) laying hands on your birds, I am by no means qualified to make the assumption that your birds have DQ issues or are not exhibition worthy.  Just stating where some of us are coming from. 

The whole feather quality issue is a whole other issue, and again, it's common with most breeds that have blue or self blue varieties.  It's NOT a DQ, but it would be a tie breaker, so to speak, if two birds of the same breed/variety/gender and were otherwise very equal.  I see lots of poor feather quality in show pens on birds that have gone on to win their class.  Just something to keep in mind. 

Very nice egg color here!  The sheen is great, too, which is one of the hallmarks of a good Marans egg.  Great work here.

Thank you for your opinion, and I completely understand where you are coming from. If I didn't want to breed for SOP, I wouldn't continually ask Don for his opinion. I know he's going to give the harsh truth, and that's what I want to hear. I don't want to be one of the people churning out eggs and chicks with no regard for SOP. That may be what my post sounded like, but that wasn't my intent.
What passes for BCM in my area would make you cringe. I got rid of my entire first flock when I learned the faults. The birds I have now are not perfect, but they are a much better starting point than I had the first time. Yes, my customers only care about dark egg layers, but I do want to breed to SOP. I understand that this is a heavily culled breed, and I don't have a problem doing that, but I have to work with what I have for now. I ordered from a highly recommended breeder, including Bev's recommendation. Maybe I should have ordered from Brian, but these birds are still much better than my first. That's why I continue posting pictures and asking advice. I read as much as I can, but it helps to have the input of you guys that have been doing this for years. I do want to make the offspring better than the parents, and I do want to breed to SOP, I was just saying that the birds I have now are where I start

 

[Wynette]

scflock - I completely understand where you're coming from. NO ONE has a perfect flock. I always say, the day I think I have everything improved that can be improved is the day I ought to throw in the towel. The other thing here is that you learn SO much by seeing flaws firsthand! I've always considered myself a student, and probably always will. Sounds like you're working really hard on your birds - that's to be admired, and keep up that good work!

 

[scflock]

scflock - I completely understand where you're coming from. NO ONE has a perfect flock. I always say, the day I think I have everything improved that can be improved is the day I ought to throw in the towel. The other thing here is that you learn SO much by seeing flaws firsthand! I've always considered myself a student, and probably always will. Sounds like you're working really hard on your birds - that's to be admired, and keep up that good work!

My first flock was a total disaster, but I didn't know that until I posted pictures on here thinking people would tell me how cute they were. That was a rude awakening, but it was also what made me want to start learning more about what I was doing, rather than hatch every egg that's laid from my one rooster. The last 18 months have been a very steep learning curve, but my flocks are continuing to improve with the help of people like you and Don. That's why I ask for the honest opinions, I want to do better. I'm not going to get mad and stop posting when Don tells me to buy an axe

 

[Wynette]

The axe is Don's (an my own) most useful farm tool. The nice thing about chickens is they taste great with dumplings.

Kudos to you!! It's hard to hear negative things about your flock, but once folks get over it, it's truly the thing that helps them decide whether they wish to work on an SOP-quality flock or will be happy with some pretty birds that lay gorgeous eggs. I see usefulness on both sides of that fence. Not everyone is up to the challenge (or has the time & energy to commit to) of breeding to the standard.

 

[scflock]

The axe is Don's (an my own) most useful farm tool. The nice thing about chickens is they taste great with dumplings.

Kudos to you!! It's hard to hear negative things about your flock, but once folks get over it, it's truly the thing that helps them decide whether they wish to work on an SOP-quality flock or will be happy with some pretty birds that lay gorgeous eggs. I see usefulness on both sides of that fence. Not everyone is up to the challenge (or has the time & energy to commit to) of breeding to the standard.

That's another reason I hang around this thread more. I could sell any bird that laid dark eggs all day long, and no one in my area would know any better. I want to learn and breed to SOP for exactly the reason you stated, for that rare customer that wants to show one day. I want the pretty eggs, but I also want to have a foundation that is solid enough to give someone a decent start. That does open me up to new customers. I got my first breeder quality flock of AMs from Paul Smith last year and that really opened my eyes to what I could be doing. I hope to do the same with the BCM. I have a lot of birds, most of which came from feed stores and hatcheries, but what is happening for me now is I'm starting to phase those flocks out and scale down to only the AMs and BCM

 

[Wynette]

That's really great stuff to hear. LOVE IT. I hang onto my cull pullets for my layer flock. It's been fun watching even my layer flock look a bit better (to SOP) each year. Paul has some AMAZING Ameraucanas, best of luck with them, as well!

 

[scflock]

That's really great stuff to hear. LOVE IT. I hang onto my cull pullets for my layer flock. It's been fun watching even my layer flock look a bit better (to SOP) each year. Paul has some AMAZING Ameraucanas, best of luck with them, as well!

I get some awesome feedback on the AM thread. I really did get some nice birds, and the chicks I'm starting to get from my first year breeding are beautiful. When I get to feeling too full of myself over there, I always come back here to get humbled