Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[Debbi]

Ok, here may be a dumb question or two.

1) Can the over melanised boys be hiding the wheaten gene?

2) Is there any connection in a lack of red flecking on the breast of a BCM and the hidden wheaten gene?

I was reading on the Australian site, http://frenchmaransclubaustralia.yolasite.com/notes-on-breeding.php , and for some reason it hit me these two (#2 question) could be connected??

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
The cockerel I just re-homed was also wry tailed. He started showing it around 3 months, and when he left it was very pronounced, but only on occaision. He would hold it to the left or the right, and even straight at times. He also had a very high set tail, white in his hackles and tail, and very sparse shank feathers. Bye bye

 

[marquisella]

Quote:
From the things I have read from the people that have owned up getting Wheaten chicks from black coppers, it was from those that had more red/copper rather than those that were blacker.

I can't say its 100% correct, plus it seems to be mostly from on3 line as well.

Sue

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
From the things I have read from the people that have owned up getting Wheaten chicks from black coppers, it was from those that had more red/copper rather than those that were blacker.

I can't say its 100% correct, plus it seems to be mostly from on3 line as well.

Sue

Sue, thanks. That seems to be odd though as the Wheatens should not have any flecking, but the BCMs are supposed to. Now I'm confused again

And yes, I have that line!

 

[marquisella]

Quote:
The cockerel I just re-homed was also wry tailed. He started showing it around 3 months, and when he left it was very pronounced, but only on occaision. He would hold it to the left or the right, and even straight at times. He also had a very high set tail, white in his hackles and tail, and very sparse shank feathers. Bye bye

A judge once told me that the reason a rooster has a wry tail, and its in any breed, is because the rear end is too thin, and lacking in muscle, so the tail, flops over. If you look at the rooster from the top, you might see that he is more in shape of a triangle, with the narrow pointy end at the base of the tail, instead of rectangular. I think that on the French Marans site they have a diagram of the correct shape of the rooster looking down at the back.

Sue

 

[Debbi]

Sue, yes, that was true of the boy I culled out. He was the slightest built of the three cockerels, very upright, shorter back, and lacking in the rear.

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Yep.....so is this guy. Down the road he goes.

eta: His tail is also very high Debbi as you can see in the last photo. One of his brothers was squirrel tailed indeed, that was the big overly red one.

 

[snowbird]

Quote:
From the things I have read from the people that have owned up getting Wheaten chicks from black coppers, it was from those that had more red/copper rather than those that were blacker.

I can't say its 100% correct, plus it seems to be mostly from on3 line as well.

Sue

Sue, thanks. That seems to be odd though as the Wheatens should not have any flecking, but the BCMs are supposed to. Now I'm confused again

And yes, I have that line!

Debbi, I think we are getting the red flecking and the brown breast mixed up here. It has always been assumed that the Brown Breasted BC males have an influence from the wheaten and I believe this also. I also think the over melanised males can be hiding the wheaten gene also. The most tell-tell sign for me is the brown breast and the white legs. I have done a lot of testing on the white leg BC and believe what I have seen. Don

 

[Debbi]

Thanks Don. I've yet to have the brown breast, are you referring to mossy/too much connected red in the breast? So far, that's not been a problem here. On the Aussie site though, they kept, almost insisting on the red flecking on the breast of the BCM, and a total lack of it in the wheatens. Just made me wonder. I have no "persimmonous?" flecking on any of my BCM cockerels.

Being a "show me" kind of gal, I guess I'm just going to have to jump in and start hatching some of my own concoctions and see what comes to fruition!

Seems like the more I read, the more confused I get!

 

[marquisella]

Quote:
Wheatens are supposed to have a black breast in all breeds. But, I have yet myself, and I admit I haven't seen that many, haven't seen a wheaten marans roo with a solid black breast.

Interesting, when I first looked at Marans, and at the French Web site, the standard for a bc male said "black breast". A few years ago, they changed it to allow for copper flecking. It seems to me, that they are changing it as they develop the birds to suit what they have.

Anyway, what they do in Australia, really doesn't have an impact on what we do here.
They also script their standard to fit the birds they have, which makes sense.

Why would a standard be written that didn't fit the birds that it would govern?

The French have just as many problems as we do here. I think that we are just more vocal about them. Which is a good thing...

Sue