Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[geebs]

Dave: Some ppl get so passionate that they get tunnel vision and blind to others around them... Sorry it has happened to you again... This forum is supposed to be for ppl like you and me to learn so that we can share the journey.. There will always be ppl that instead of seeing the sights and enjoying the ride are really intent on the goal and not the journey... In an attempt at the goal they will take the high short roads.. I am going to enjoy the scenery and take my time... but.... If I can spot some markers on the little ones at birth.. Well that would be cool .. So to Dave and other "lurkers".. do your part with the little ones right now and photograph them.. It is the class project.. We can all compare notes this fall.. when our birds look more like adults... It would be nice to get several stages of growth.. even if each person only looks at one bird each.. We will all have a few to look at in September/October. Then we can log results of the ones we keep of those...(test matings etc) This is a group like no other kind.. The french had a collerbative group that kept records... but we are a broader group with more technology than they ever dreamed. Let's use what we got.

I do hope we all took time to welcome CASEY!!!! Did you all lurk that!!!! ???

Life is a journey...not a race... So share the road I say!!!!

I am open about my breeding practices and theories and as always encourage others ideas....It is confusing yep..

As for a standard that keeps changing... Well them is the breaks... The french haven't made any changes since 1991 so It is pretty safe to use it as a yardstick.. Our team is working on our behalf but it is a complicated issue.. the APA has wording it likes that is why this is such a process. If you are breeding to the RED side of things at one point you will have too much maybe a RIR

.. If you are breedng to the black side of things you will eventually have an austrolorp looking bird. The guidelines for LINEBREEDING work using the French method... That is what I am looking at here on this thread. Ya ever try to please all of the ppl all of the time.... Uh it DON"T work.. So I am going to please myself and use the yardstick that I am comfortable with... Critere

We are discussing breeding strategies for this bird guys.. It is CHICKENS... Isn't it great that we live in a world that we can breed chickens.. We can put our own spin on it.. like the low riders.. or the females with FAT combs...

Don't worry about the other children in the sandbox... just come and play with the toys..... I will share my shovel...

Hey guys I found a nest from my free rangers and made a home made marans chart!!! It is 3-D...

The one at the far left is tinted not white.. This just shows the shading better.

This is before I washed them... they were really icky... one had broken and sticky everywhere with feathers on em and such..... but still a good find.

 

[math ace]

Quote:
Quote:

What do you think of the shade of red? Is is too dark? I like the darker red but the marans I see out there have a lighter red to them. I will see if I can get some better shots.

REPOSTING - - since this question got lost in the many postings yesterday!

 

[math ace]

Mrs. AK-Bird-Brain :

I just cannot keep up with you peeps.

OK... I admit, my roo is pitiful. Please do not hurt me... this is what happens when you live in Alaska and you have a rooster that INSISTS on staying outside, despite your best efforts.

He's healing, and it has not diminished his, um, "enthusiasm" for the ladies.

Said ladies decided they wanted his tail feathers as souvenirs, too...

But it is finally growing back. I would appreciate feedback on his conformation and coloring. I do have another young buck, but he's still got a lot of growing to do before I even look at him.

This is Duncan:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/vyancey/Chickens/DuncanBCM1-28-201110-14-41AM.jpg

http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/vyancey/Chickens/DuncanBCM1-28-201110-15-04AM.jpg

This is one of his ladies:
http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k270/vyancey/Chickens/BCMhen1-28-201110-15-33AM.jpg

The others ran outside so quick, I couldn't grab them, so I'll have to add photos later after they come in.

(Currently a balmy 17°F. )

REPOSTING since there was the tangent issue about frozen fertility - -- - I think OP is still looking for feed back.​

 

[Mrs MIA]

Quote:
REPOSTING since there was the tangent issue about frozen fertility - -- - I think OP is still looking for feed back.

Thank you... I was beginning to think I missed it... I'm hoping this weekend to get more pics.

 

[geebs]

it's all good.. some say yes... some say no... the OP stands with the yes crowd...

I don't know whether it was he wasn't mounting or just stress due to injury.. I only know the result... temporary replacement roo.

Okay it is quiet around here... let's have a look at Duncan from AK birdbrain in Alaska: just give me a minute Ostrich owner!!! First let me thank you for allowing us to have a critical eye on Duncan. This is what I see today with the photos presented... others may see other things.

Well first of all lets look at the head
Good shape a little longer is more desirable (my opinion)
Eyes: acceptable
Ear coverts look to the dark/black
Comb.. well you will have to count for me
The copper color is toward the darker side but acceptable..
Not enough mahogany in the wings/shoulders
The neck has ample length
Horn color is acceptable but to the light side (possible carrier of another gene)
Length of back: less than desired
Wings are tight to the body..
Tail is impossible to discern at this time though angle looks optimal in this photo
Width of bird appears to be good both in back and chest.. Kinda hard to tell
Shanks (lighter but French standards awards it merits)… AS want a little more color
Toes good
Leg feathering very good it appears.


The breeding strategy for him would include ruling out wheaton….or enjoying the bonus
For a mate I would choose one that was a little more to the lighter copper and was not beetle green..
more of the mousy black color to balance out the melaniser

The degree of balancing depends on which standard you are striving for. I would choose
a long backed female with dark legs and a longer skull.

This male carries a couple faults.. the ear tufts are to be brown AS or copper FS
The horn is find FS but for AS darker
The shanks ideal FS but darker according to current AS

• by AS I mean the proposed American Standard SOP
• by FS I mean the Current French Standard SOP

 

[Illia]

Wow. I have over 20 pages to read through. Alright homework!

 

[Mrs MIA]

I know it was way back this morning, but I was hoping for feedback on Duncan...

The one with the frostbite.

 

[VillageChicken]

Debbi- I have read that Aussie site alot and I DO think it pertains to us because genetics work the same regardless of the continent we are on.

Here's why I think the brown in the chest is different between BC and Wheaten: Wheatens should have a solid black chest. It shows everything else is in balance, and that it doesn't have any funky genes, inhibitors, restricters etc. Pure wheaten should have a black chest, I believe this is consistent throughout all varieties of chicken in the wheaten color. The Mahogany gene that produces the dark red on our BC should not be present in wheatens. Besides making gold areas red, it has a weak restricting effect on the black areas of a bird: spots on the chest could be evidence of a wheaten carrying mahogany. This is a concern in wheatens because it produces female offspring that are dark wheaten instead of the correct wheat color.

The Birchen gene that our BC have, allows for lacing on the breast of the rooster if there are less melanizers present. Mahogany doesn't restrict black on the Birchen allele like it does on wheaten, or if it does, it's far weaker. So flecking does not equal funky genes on a Birchen. So breeders have determined that a BC rooster with some flecking will throw more balanced hens, rather than the typically overmelanized ones. It's just an indicator of good black balance on BC's, but an indicator of genetic fouling in wheatens.

 

[geebs]

Wow good homework!!! That would explain way back why no one liked my rooster with the flames in his chest but he has a good copper balance with the hens he has.

I am not up on the wheaton breeding strategies but perhaps I need to be as it pertains to this color as well.. thanks VC!!!

Now the most I can say about the lady due to picture quality AKbirdbrain is that she is cute and she appears to have the required lack of melaniser to balance the black however I cannot tell the degree of red because of the media we are using... she may be too red or she may be just right. I would want her lighter than him by a couple shades... Please post pictures of her offspring.... let's see what they look like...

 

[VillageChicken]

Geebs, when do you sleep?

About the eggs and the genes thing. I don't want to insult anyone, but the shell color does not determine the genes inside. The hen is born with genes that produce dark shells. These genes don't change. She passes them on randomly regardless of which rooster she is paired with, and regardless of where she is in her laying cycle. Eggs produced at the beginning of her cycle do not contain more dark egg genes than the ones at the end of her laying cycle. So if she lays 200 eggs in a year, the 4's at the end will not have any less probability of producing dark laying offspring than the 7's at the beginning of her cycle.

In a mixed flock when you don't know which egg comes from which hen, the dark egg selection is imperative. But we are just talking about eggs from one hen. The packaging doesn't alter the DNA packaged inside. The timing of the egg, whether early or late in the laying cycle does not affect the DNA inside. That's like saying if you get pregnant in January you're more likely to have a redhead than if you get pregnant in June.

AK- Your Rooster looks interesting. I don't know if it's how he's standing, but his head looks awful small. Maybe his neck is all puffed out because he's cold. But he looks like a linebacker! Maybe when you've got some different pictures more folks will comment. A frontal shot and one from above is always helpful