Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[kara_leigh]

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Nevermind then. *feeling foolish* The lady I bought him from told me he was a BC, but she lets all of her chickens breed with each other, so maybe he's a mix. I don't care, regardless. I love him anyway.

 

[Lifesong Farm]

I purchased a dz BCM eggs last month and hatched out 9 chicks. One egg had a crack and quit developing early on. I lost one that I had to help out of the shell this morning but other than that all are doing well. I am excited to see how this breed works out for me.

 

[AyeUpChuck]

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Nevermind then. *feeling foolish* The lady I bought him from told me he was a BC, but she lets all of her chickens breed with each other, so maybe he's a mix. I don't care, regardless. I love him anyway.

Don't feel silly. He looks like he's part BCM. His leg feathering is really heavy, he's WAY too orange/coppery and the yellow feet definitely suggest a cross. That's why BYC is here though. So that you can network and learn. I know I learn TONS everyday. I'm a total novice. You'll get the hang of it and eventually if you're up to it, buy some BCM eggs from someone on here that's reputable and hatch them. Or not it's totally up to you. But we're not here to judge so much as help each other. Oh and

 

[geebs]

Ditto.....

 

[geebs]

Does anyone out there actually use the links at the front of this thread??? Just curious.... I thought I would point out that they are there to subscribers... It seems this thread has taken a turn from the intense learning... do we have any juvenile bird that we had baby pictures of to post?? I think Math posted some babies... Did you follow up??? (no worries if you didn't) I goofed and gave away my test study... (my bad).. But I will tell you this.. SHe was a girl... and I called it a girl... I really am kicking myself... I am waiting for a new hatch to take a run at it again..I have had a computer crash that took out the photos that I had stored but not backed up.. My next hatch I will make the same notes and start again...

So far I have recieved pictures from only one person on faults... Please Send me your color faults on BC marans to be put at the front of this thread... Everyone and anyone can send me a photo...

 

[VillageChicken]

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Jan, if you remember I hatched a pure brown chick out of the first hatch and from the Dark birds. He has feathered out to be BC with a lot of color and a liitle too much in breast. But I still believe these brown marked chicks will have the brown soft feathering and just will not put up with that. The Ethnics groups will have lots of chicken in about a month.

I have never hatched a wheaten from this junk yet. I do believe there is wheaten and penne in the blood though.

I would think that in almost every case, the wheaten blood IS penedesenca. There is no black copper pene bird, and I don't see the advantage of a deliberate wheaten x BC in pure Marans. It's not just the wing triangle that gives someone a clue, the chickdown and juvenile feathering in wheaten would make them distinct for a long time with anyone paying attention to what they are doing. Folks who crossed in pene blood probably chose the wheaten because the male pheno is closest to the Black Copper male. I know this happened long time ago - it's fascinating how long the genes persist even in birds with proper type and color.

Probably any stray duckwing/partridge genes out there are Penedesenca too.

 

[geebs]

VC: I respectfully dissagree. It is know that in France the early poultiers didn't always discern the wheaton from the black copper as males... So we ended up with the lines mixed... The wade jeanne line as it entered the states had that same problems....even in the very beginning here it wasn't easy to tell the Wheaton from the Black copper in the males...(males only)

Possible recant here.. If you are talking originally like a hundred years ago.. that could be a possibility...

Penedesenca are very different in the way they act and the things genetically that they bring to the table.. the size, shape, attitude, color and shape of the eggs.. To me they are not the same bird at all.

The partridge could be Welsummer or Barnevelder or Penedesenca...

 

[VillageChicken]

I understand your point, but the problem in France was ages ago, and it's only after 3 or 4 months that the adult males are hard to distinguish... and the females aren't even close, ever.
And all the sprigs out there. Do you read anything in the french forums about carnation combs or sprigs? It seems like it's more prevalent in U.S. birds, though I know the sprig gene is out there in many varieties.

I wasn't thinking about 100 years ago... don't think the French would stand for a Spanish bird mingling with their elite layers.

Yes, Barnies and Wellies have the duckwing pattern, but they still lag behind in egg color, and are not of the same type, so why would they be crossed in? I guess the Wellie would explain the occasional yellow shanks, but Barnie roos are so much darker in the hackle and saddle.

 

[geebs]

I would say Wellies.. they are real talkie.... The pene crosses here... so obvious.. Not the same bird AT ALL... I don't know what you have there but I am voting Wellie on the Duckwing... (partridge) as a main source though I expect that all of them are responsible.. The chattiness of the partridgey ones with good substance... Likely wellie and the double lace pattern on the chest...I would vote barney... but the wild eyed, crown comb, white enameled, crazy leghorn lookin bird.... UH PENE for sure...Not at all even similar in any way... at least here in the states.

I have to say... I have seen a good barney/marans cross with a fantastic egg color.... With my own eyes!!! I think ppl were tryng to improve the barnies...not the other way around.....

There are several genotypes involved with the colors and I surmise that the mixed genes may be discernable in the crosses when looking at the phenotype... I have not done a study on that..... YET!!!

 

[VillageChicken]

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That makes sense... so what birdbrain puts those hybrids back in the Marans pen?
Yeah, I know Pene type is way different... I think it's interesting though, how some types dominate over others. You don't always get an intermediate type right in the middle in a cross. Orps for example have a very strong type, that when bred to another very different type, still seems to show through really well. I've got a silver barred columbian cross out of a Orp roo and silver barred rock hen. He's only a couple weeks old, and he looks 100% orpington already. I haven't done any Pene or Leghorn hybrids, except a couple Araucana/Leghorns, and the gangliness is still there, but Araucanas aren't real chunky to begin with.

I'm not saying it's fresh blood... and after a few generations I'm sure the Marans type prevails even though the wheaten genes still persist. I'm just speculating that more wheaten came from Pene crosses originally than from ignorant breeders who can't tell wheaten from birchen.