Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[flgardengirl]

Quote:
They usually lay at about 5 months old. Sometimes a little earlier, sometimes a little later. Just keep on reading the threads and asking questions that is how we all are learning what to look for. Seems like every week I learn something new! You can also look at some of the Marans Clubs websites for more information. My grandparents are the ones that got me started with chickens as well. Good memories!
Here are a couple of links.
http://www.maransusa.org/
http://frenchmaransclubaustralia.yolasite.com/notes-on-breeding.php
http://maransofamericaclub.com/

 

[Arielle]

I'm not sure why the french feather leg was chosen over the clean-legged type. To me both are equally of value. I once had a french angora rabbit, but prefer the english angora. Again, both are equally valued; the breed was slightly altered to meet the needs of the new location and the new breeders preference. I see the BCM in the same light. So please don't consider you birds without feathers as less than those with feathers. I personally prefer clean legged birds; I just happened to buy chicks with feathers because they were the only chicks i could find for sale.

I would like to hope there is room for different types and perhaps there will be an SOP for the non-feathered type too!!

 

[pinkchick]

Quote:
Just wanted to say I agree with this statement. I've had Marans for awhile now, I have both clean shanked and feather shanked, mostly feather shanked though, but I consider my clean shanked Blue Copper rooster the most valuable Marans I have and I use him for breeding. He has excellent traits and qualities that he lends to his offspring. If I could only have one rooster...I would choose him over every other one I have here.

 

[TDM]

Quote:
Just wanted to say I agree with this statement. I've had Marans for awhile now, I have both clean shanked and feather shanked, mostly feather shanked though, but I consider my clean shanked Blue Copper rooster the most valuable Marans I have and I use him for breeding. He has excellent traits and qualities that he lends to his offspring. If I could only have one rooster...I would choose him over every other one I have here.

As a small commercial producer of eggs, I have no real interest in what a committee decided a black copper marans should look like. I want really dark eggs, and lots of them. So I guess people will always be cursing my type of breeder out, because I also sell BCM chicks locally for extra money.

 

[Debbi]

Quote:
Just wanted to say I agree with this statement. I've had Marans for awhile now, I have both clean shanked and feather shanked, mostly feather shanked though, but I consider my clean shanked Blue Copper rooster the most valuable Marans I have and I use him for breeding. He has excellent traits and qualities that he lends to his offspring. If I could only have one rooster...I would choose him over every other one I have here.

As a small commercial producer of eggs, I have no real interest in what a committee decided a black copper marans should look like. I want really dark eggs, and lots of them. So I guess people will always be cursing my type of breeder out, because I also sell BCM chicks locally for extra money.



I should probably just bite my tongue here, but I can't. This is a problem with the Marans breed. Too many folks breeding willy-nilly for a buck. Now, I can understand and even appreciate your love of the dark eggs and your earning a living off of them, but to sell the chicks when you are not even considering the "quality" of the chicks you are producing, is worrisome. This breed is pretty much still in the infancy state here in this country, with a very small gene pool. Serious breeders have broken their necks to improve their stock and to help develop a consistency within the breed. Then there are the folks who jump on the money train and breed whatever, and call it Marans. Are you producing genetic faults that are now being passed on to unsuspecting people who may be really interested in the breed? Do you know the standard for the Black Coppers? The DQs? Quality from Cull? Probably not from your statement. You could however, sell the chicks, as "dark egg layers", or "dual purpose chickens", and not as Marans. I would love to see some pictures of your Marans flock. Who knows, you could have some gorgeous birds there? But if you don't know or care, that can be detrimental to the breed as a whole. In the long run, it will also come back to bite you as well, if people aren't happy with the quality of your birds. Word of mouth is a powerful thing! Education is key here, and all should educate themselves before any purchase, but let's face it, we have all jumped in on an impulse at one time or another, (I know I have!), without much in the line of research. Obviously, if you didn't care at all, you would not be on this thread, so I suspect you are in here to learn something? I sure hope that's the case. Don't mean to sound snooty, I'm not. I also DON'T sell my eggs or birds until I can be certain of a consistency and quality. Until then, I'll sit back and absorb all the knowledge from these fine folks as I can! Hope you will join us and learn.

I'm sure this will earn me some not wanted points, but had to speak my mind. Did not mean to offend nor demean anyone!

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
As a small commercial producer of eggs, I have no real interest in what a committee decided a black copper marans should look like. I want really dark eggs, and lots of them. So I guess people will always be cursing my type of breeder out, because I also sell BCM chicks locally for extra money.



I should probably just bite my tongue here, but I can't. This is a problem with the Marans breed. Too many folks breeding willy-nilly for a buck. Now, I can understand and even appreciate your love of the dark eggs and your earning a living off of them, but to sell the chicks when you are not even considering the "quality" of the chicks you are producing, is worrisome. This breed is pretty much still in the infancy state here in this country, with a very small gene pool. Serious breeders have broken their necks to improve their stock and to help develop a consistency within the breed. Then there are the folks who jump on the money train and breed whatever, and call it Marans. Are you producing genetic faults that are now being passed on to unsuspecting people who may be really interested in the breed? Do you know the standard for the Black Coppers? The DQs? Quality from Cull? Probably not from your statement. You could however, sell the chicks, as "dark egg layers", or "dual purpose chickens", and not as Marans. I would love to see some pictures of your Marans flock. Who knows, you could have some gorgeous birds there? But if you don't know or care, that can be detrimental to the breed as a whole. In the long run, it will also come back to bite you as well, if people aren't happy with the quality of your birds. Word of mouth is a powerful thing! Education is key here, and all should educate themselves before any purchase, but let's face it, we have all jumped in on an impulse at one time or another, (I know I have!), without much in the line of research. Obviously, if you didn't care at all, you would not be on this thread, so I suspect you are in here to learn something? I sure hope that's the case. Don't mean to sound snooty, I'm not. I also DON'T sell my eggs or birds until I can be certain of a consistency and quality. Until then, I'll sit back and absorb all the knowledge from these fine folks as I can! Hope you will join us and learn.

I'm sure this will earn me some not wanted points, but had to speak my mind. Did not mean to offend nor demean anyone!

Although I agree in principle with what Debbi has to say, I am realistic enough to know that it is unrealistic. Folks have ALWAYS bred every manner of creature willy nilly and they always will - usually in pursuit of the almighty buck - and they will continue to label them in a misleading way. What I have learned - the hard way - is that it is up to those of us that care about a particular breed standard to purchase our stock accordingly and carefully. We, the purchasers, need to "vet" the folks we are buying from and their stock. We, the purchasers, need to do the work. I actually appreciate the honesty of TDM. "My priority is dark egg laying birds. Name attached - Marans." If I choose to buy stock from TDM, iIt is up to me to determine if they really are or not.

Like the label "not show quality".

jmho - someone just getting started and making mistakes along the way. But learning!

 

[seabreeze]

Again, like Debbi, I'm not demeaning anyone but breeding strictly for dark brown eggs and not caring whether the birds meet the SOP is akin to folks who produce puppies from small breeds and supply to pet stores. I see it as *milling* regardless of species, canine, fowl, feline etc., If its what is in demand, it is bred with little regard to a standard, only that it meets a small criteria such as dark eggs or small teacup puppy etc.,

I had a amazing rooster that I did place because he had a slight bump on his comb that earned him title Mr. Sprig. One of his sons is huge, rectangular, heavy duty brick with excellent coppering, etc., and yes, a tiny side sprig. Best rooster in my group and I brought quite a few from the east coast of a supposed SOP breeder at great cost and Sprig's son is the best roo in the lot but he won't get to breed on.

Also Mr. Sprig produced some babies that are laying at least a shade or two darker than the hens I got from a respected breeder nearby. I was flabbergasted at his daughters' new eggs, almost chocolate in color instead of the terra cotta red.

I am keeping my eye on the near 5 month old pullets and roosters I got from Copper Hackle Coop carefully because they brought in some things I have never seen in my short tenure with Marans. I have at least two tailless; I have several with black eyes; I have several that are so dark they look like an Australorp except for their legs (well feathered). My best pullets and cockerels? By Mr. Sprig. Ironic, isn't it.

 

[Sparklee]

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Well, I won't be cursing your type of breeder. Not me. For the record I've never sold or given away a Black Copper Marans. And mine are spectacular. No, really. A sight to behold.

Yes, I drool over my main rooster as I watch him lead his ladies around the place. Well, most of the BCM hens stick around the coop, but some go out with him. No, I'm not posting a photo.

That's not the point.

There is nothing wrong with selling Black Copper Marans for the color of their eggs. And the "committee" you refer to doesn't even care what color the eggs are that the Black Copper Marans produce. How's that for ironic?

Just because they are a utility strain of Black Copper Marans doesn't mean they're not BCMs. Sell a lot of them. Those folks who buy a utility strain may at some point become interested in showing and then they can pay a show breeder, as opposed to you who are a commercial producer, for a trio of perfectly plumed birds that may quite likely be worthless at producing a lot of eggs because that's the way it almost always eventually works with SQ chickens.

I welcome you to the BCM fold with open arms. I hope that doesn't sound snooty or anything.

TDM, to change the topic slightly, have you been able to increase egg production at all? Mine lay only about 14 a month during Feb and March, which I'm not too impressed with, especially when I consider feed costs and what BCMs must eat to maintain themselves (I have a huge strain*). Winters are pretty dismal as egg production goes way down even for the young hens. Are you trap nesting and keeping count? Or do you have another method of improving egg production? Are you removing broody hens from your laying flock? It would be great to have a strain that doesn't go broody if eggs are the only goal. I've had a couple of broodies since April (some have quit and others have started, but two total at any one time).

Edit: huge strain = the BCMs I have are huge birds. Big, Big, Big.

 

[flgardengirl]

I think it is okay to sell or give away chickens with faults as long as you disclose it to the buyer/ or person you are giving it to. Hey maybe they want a chicken with too much red, extra feathers on the toes, or whatnot to correct thier own stock. A buyer should also know what to look for when buying but some faults don't become apparent until they are older either. Sometimes you will have birds for a generation or two that look good but they may have a fault that shows up in other generations , or shows up when the buyer gets a bird and breeds it to thier birds or the to bird next door. So, just long as you say what you know is a fault and say what it is, I think you are pretty much covered.
The hatcheries already have these birds (bcms)and will do what they want regardless of what we want, just like they do all the other breeds. You can't control others, you can only make a reputation for yourself by breeding and selling what you feel are the best birds and the best egg color you can get. Lots of breeders sell thier culls but state what they are i.e. breeder quality, show quality, pet quality, peice of crap cull or whatever...

 

[onthespot]

One man's worst is another man's best. Vice versa.