Black Copper Marans discussion thread

[BarnGoddess01]

Question for the experts. If as most are saying the female produces the mean and nasty males, what would you have to do to figure out that a female was producing these besides single mate and keep the males to see if they turn out mean.

I can give you some info on what I know to be a fact. I have a long Gamefowl background as I was born into the Gamefowl family. If you have a mean male and breed him you will get mean males from the breeding. Very simple just cull the mean males and go forward. The occasional male that will hit you can be trained not to do that.

I don't know if MOST are saying it. Seems to be just me so far ...

 

[culler]

Barb, Just saying that the old timers always said, cull the mean male. There is so much of the genetic theory out there that has never been proven to be correct. The only way to really know is do a study.

Might have something to do with the Canadian Dew also do you think ?

 

[Arielle]

Question for the experts. If as most are saying the female produces the mean and nasty males, what would you have to do to figure out that a female was producing these besides single mate and keep the males to see if they turn out mean.

I can give you some info on what I know to be a fact. I have a long Gamefowl background as I was born into the Gamefowl family. If you have a mean male and breed him you will get mean males from the breeding. Very simple just cull the mean males and go forward. The occasional male that will hit you can be trained not to do that.

IMO both parents play a role in temperament. Because males sire more offspring, fast and immediate changes can be made. In my livestock, I select both males and females for the temperament I need.

How do you train a male not to hit you? He is easily offended and quick to hit.

 

[Arielle]

I don't know if MOST are saying it. Seems to be just me so far ...

And you could be right . . . . I select temperament in both males and females.

 

[culler]

The male you have would not necessarily be classified as being genetically flawed. The male that is genetically flawed will attach for no reason and will hit at you every chance they get.

The male that will on occasion hit you can be gentled by just picking up and hold onto for a few minutes, all the time using the index finger to rub under the beak and upper neck in a downward motion. I have said before on here that most chickens like over ripe Banana , while holding let the male peck on the Banana. I feed all my young fowl Banana three times a week and they love the Banana. Just a little patience goes a long way with the nervous male.

 

[Arielle]

Barb, Just saying that the old timers always said, cull the mean male. There is so much of the genetic theory out there that has never been proven to be correct. The only way to really know is do a study.

Might have something to do with the Canadian Dew also do you think ?

I can't speak specifically to birds as my knowledge is far less than other species. I DO know that the Dutch are extraordinary breeders and the Dutch Warmblood stallions were graded for years on temperament. A numeric grade in which no animal less than a 7 was approved for breeding. THey spend big bucks on research; it's the second highest revenue producer in the country, flowers being first, of course!

A good reason to put heavy selection on the male, as a master breeder told me, is because the male has a bigger genetic impact than the females. He told me to start with and focus on the selection of the males for the first year or two.

 

[culler]

Arielle, If you cull male and female for temperamint and your line of fowl are close linebred, then you would have to cull the entire line. Much easier to brring in a new male to start with, try to get a male from the same line as your females.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Barb, Just saying that the old timers always said, cull the mean male. There is so much of the genetic theory out there that has never been proven to be correct. The only way to really know is do a study.

Might have something to do with the Canadian Dew also do you think ?

But when do we decide mean is mean???? In the chicken world, the boys are supposed to step up, defend their turf and their ladies. Studies also suggest the whimpy boys do not make strong OR fertile flocks especially over time. Canadian dew aside - it's a complicated question.

 

[BarnGoddess01]

Quote:
Oy. Not sure I agree with this (except the horses and flowers part.) In fact, I've been told the opposite. It's all about the mare - and seen results. I have also worked with Dutch horses and I'm familiar with the number system. Not so sure it's all about the males ....

Curious-er and curious-er ....

 

[culler]

Arielle, The inbreeding is what causes most of the Bad acting males birds we see. We should never breed the fowl real close genetically unless we are able to do real serious culling as we go forward. If we breed real bad acting males for a few generations we have virtually destroyed our line of fowl. I have always used the five year plan when breeding my fowl.