Black crested White Polish

[I Like Turkeys]

His head was solid black down to his shoulders about a week an a half ago.

If he’d kept the black, he would look very similar to a good number of my birds. A lot of the males have prominent spangled-looking breasts and sort of leaky back/body coloring.

I’ve got one male who’s head/neck is also paling out, and he’s got white replacing some of the black.

 

[Drewsroo]

Oh man, this brings back memories. Not all of them good lol. I've forgotten most of the genetics that I knew 20 years ago.

It seems every few years there is renewed interest in this breed. I am old enough to remember when Clark Kidder got them into the standard. It should not have happened imo because they were far far from perfect and had all kinds of coloring issues.

What seems to happen is the renewed interest in them every few years leads to people trying to work with them again, because gosh if we could just get birds that look like those drawn in the old standards, that would be amazing.

The only birds I have ever seen that looked even close were Dutch bantams that I saw 20 years ago and who knows when those pictures were taken.

This has to be one of the most challenging genetics to put together. I remember my original half dozen and trying to breed them and scratching my head and kicking the walls at what came out of them haha.

What's sad is the birds on this thread are definitely a step back from what was available 20 years ago.

All that being said it would be amazing if some dedicated breeders would work hard on them, but 20 years ago I knew of a few dedicated breeders who tried, and I'm pretty sure most tossed their hands up in frustration and moved on to more rewarding pursuits.

This is LONG project and involves hundreds of culls and hundreds of chicks hatched for sure.

 

[Drewsroo]

Aha. https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Polish/BRKPolishBanty.html

The pictures on Feathersite under polish bantams have some very good examples of what people used to have. The dutch bantam pullet is about the best example I have ever seen. As you can see, it is virtually impossible to breed out the black in hackle although they succeeded with the tails.

I really wish people had kept up with this but as I said, it is a ridiculously hard project.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

Aha. https://www.feathersite.com/Poultry/CGP/Polish/BRKPolishBanty.html

The pictures on Feathersite under polish bantams have some very good examples of what people used to have. The dutch bantam pullet is about the best example I have ever seen. As you can see, it is virtually impossible to breed out the black in hackle although they succeeded with the tails.

I really wish people had kept up with this but as I said, it is a ridiculously hard project.

I wish people had kept up with them too. I appreciate both messages and agree. I’ve seen, from others‘ photos, the downgrade in quality over the years-especially quick in terms of Ideal’s line- but I wasn’t around when they got admitted into the standard, or there were more dedicated breeders, so it is what it is and I’m fine with taking years to improve the strain i have if it means I can get to see pretty birds who look generally like black crested white in person.
In regards to the hackles leaking black, that isn’t too much of a concern of mine. The standard allows for some, and if-at the very least- I can get the bodies to be generally a clean white, I’ll be happy. The issue of hackle leakage doesn’t take much away from the appearance of the bird, as long as the tail and body seem to be cleaner. Right now I guess it just doesn’t strike much of an issue with me to strive to remove it, given there are other things to worry about breeding out/breeding towards, and other things I’d like to improve first with my flock.

Also, if by chance you happen to have some 20 year old photos of your birds, I’d adore it if you share them. I like photos in general, and seeing what they’d looked like 2 decades ago would be nice.

 

[Drewsroo]

I wish people had kept up with them too. I appreciate both messages and agree. I’ve seen, from others‘ photos, the downgrade in quality over the years-especially quick in terms of Ideal’s line- but I wasn’t around when they got admitted into the standard, or there were more dedicated breeders, so it is what it is and I’m fine with taking years to improve the strain i have if it means I can get to see pretty birds who look generally like black crested white in person.
In regards to the hackles leaking black, that isn’t too much of a concern of mine. The standard allows for some, and if-at the very least- I can get the bodies to be generally a clean white, I’ll be happy. The issue of hackle leakage doesn’t take much away from the appearance of the bird, as long as the tail and body seem to be cleaner. Right now I guess it just doesn’t strike much of an issue with me to strive to remove it, given there are other things to worry about breeding out/breeding towards, and other things I’d like to improve first with my flock.

Also, if by chance you happen to have some 20 year old photos of your birds, I’d adore it if you share them. I like photos in general, and seeing what they’d looked like 2 decades ago would be nice.

The story of them getting into the standard, as best as I can remember, was basically one person obtaining a lot of them and dispersing enough to get enough people to show them and get them approved. It just seemed to me to be not a huge effort to actually breed them to type but a rush job, so to speak.

Oh I wish I had kept pictures. This was back before I had a phone to take pics (dinosaurs were still roaming the earth haha). I had a very nice couple hens but the cock bird was really lacking. The problem was absolutely no rhyme or reason to the offspring. I did learn what color chick down to look for for possible keepers. I ended up just hatching as many as I could except in the dead of winter to just get a few that were acceptable, then like so many others I gave it up to breed white crested varieties. The real problem in my opinion is there is no back cross to make to another polish variety. Perhaps silver laced would work but as I have stated my genetics knowledge went bye bye when I gave up show poultry. The inability to back cross to get a larger crest on them was a big frustration. It was hatch hatch hatch hatch and select for best type first and now I am breaking into a cold sweat just thinking about it

I wish there were more people out there like you who were passionate about them.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

I had a very nice couple hens but the cock bird was really lacking. The problem was absolutely no rhyme or reason to the offspring.

That same issue is common in the harlequin rabbit breeding. 2 perfect animals can breed and produce kits good for nothing but freezer fillers

 

[Drewsroo]

If he’d kept the black, he would look very similar to a good number of my birds. A lot of the males have prominent spangled-looking breasts and sort of leaky back/body coloring.

I’ve got one male who’s head/neck is also paling out, and he’s got white replacing some of the black.

I swear I am not trying to hijack your post.

This post you made starts bringing it all back, as far as what I was taught to look for and expect. I remember seeing my first chicks with the blackish grey coloring and being taken aback (before I understood how the silver gene behaves in this mix) thinking I was hatching all black chicks. You can have some really muddy young birds that look terrible lighten up as they mature and moult into adult plumage. I remember this now. Bottom line don't give up on those ugly chicks with all the black in them because they can actually end up lightening up significantly and being something you would want to use. Save those young birds with all the black in them if they look like they could improve type.

I seriously am done hijacking your post now. You've just brought back a lot of memories and made me go from a long time lurker to joining this page again lol. Good luck and don't give up.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

did learn what color chick down to look for for possible keepers

Real quick, can I ask which down color you seemed to have better luck with as adults? I only ask because I got 4 when I had them, 3 silvery and 1 almost a dark charcoal. They grew up all looking the same though

 

[Drewsroo]

Real quick, can I ask which down color you seemed to have better luck with as adults? I only ask because I got 4 when I had them, 3 silvery and 1 almost a dark charcoal. They grew up all looking the same though

Charcoal/dark grey. Never cull one of those until you see what it grows out to be. Grey/silver can be good too but my best grow outs started out looking anything but white. And looked awful until they moulted into adult plumage lol. The lighter colored chicks tended over time to moult into too much white (leaking into crest) from what I can remember. Don't take my word as gospel. The cobwebs are still pretty thick.

 

[I Like Turkeys]

I swear I am not trying to hijack your post.

This post you made starts bringing it all back, as far as what I was taught to look for and expect. I remember seeing my first chicks with the blackish grey coloring and being taken aback (before I understood how the silver gene behaves in this mix) thinking I was hatching all black chicks. You can have some really muddy young birds that look terrible lighten up as they mature and moult into adult plumage. I remember this now. Bottom line don't give up on those ugly chicks with all the black in them because they can actually end up lightening up significantly and being something you would want to use. Save those young birds with all the black in them if they look like they could improve type.

I seriously am done hijacking your post now. You've just brought back a lot of memories and made me go from a long time lurker to joining this page again lol. Good luck and don't give up.

It’s alright to post as much as you want. I enjoy conversing with others, it’s nice to see others’ input and experiences.
Given your notes on down colors, thank you by the way, I’ll probably grow out most of the chicks I hatch… hopefully with a better way to keep track of each chick, given I didn’t keep track of down color correlation with any of my current birds.
Thank you for stopping by though! I appreciate it, especially since you have had experience breeding black-crested whites, and were around to see them get accepted; a rough story, unfortunately. It’s nice to hear about their history, nonetheless.
Thank you as well for the luck, I am aware of the struggle, but I’m looking forward to being able to work with and breed these birds(once the pullets start laying).