Black To White Experiment

[MysteryChicken]

Oh I wasnt suggesting that, I was just commenting that it always throws me off!
Sounds like there were no other roos around then. So perhaps the prohibitive protien. The barring gene itself is actually lighter stripes of the dominant color correct? So a dark Grey with barring actually has dark grey/black as the dominant color, with the barring gene overlaid on top, the same with your Domino Roo, his red and black and blue on the wings is overlaid with the barring pattern, so she (you odd all black/blue no barring hen) could have inherited the blue and black parts from them and then a "Stop" Order for the barring, which she would then be a carrier for both the stop order and the barring. I'm not sure how you would go about getting the stop order out of there, although breeding to ones who for sure don't have it (complete barring) should surely only help?

Oh, okay. My brain is tired today.
This explains it better then I can right now.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-reveals-chickens-striped-feathers.html

Here's a close up of one of my Chameleon Rooster's Feathers.

 

[Rillowen]

Oh, okay. My brain is tired today.
This explains it better then I can right now.
https://phys.org/news/2017-04-reveals-chickens-striped-feathers.html
View attachment 4301077
Here's a close up of one of my Chameleon Rooster's Feathers. View attachment 4301078

The evolution of Sex-linked barring alleles in chickens involves both regulatory and coding changes in CDKN2A - PMC https://share.google/95Befv1zgPkzXRESj

This article suggests it's due to a full 4 genes, so potentially just one being "turned off" or "fixed" could result in no barring. (Although I should probably read it through all the way, just trying to guve you new sources of info). Since the original Cuckoo EE had the white wing tips it's possible she already had something like this going on.

 

[MysteryChicken]

The evolution of Sex-linked barring alleles in chickens involves both regulatory and coding changes in CDKN2A - PMC https://share.google/95Befv1zgPkzXRESj

This article suggests it's due to a full 4 genes, so potentially just one being "turned off" or "fixed" could result in no barring. (Although I should probably read it through all the way, just trying to guve you new sources of info). Since the original Cuckoo EE had the white wing tips it's possible she already had something like this going on.

At least the half lower portion of her wing feathers were white. Not really the tips.

They get random rusty ready feathers as well that pop up from time to time. That's one other thing I'm trying to figure out.

 

[Rillowen]

At least the half lower portion of her wing feathers were white. Not really the tips.

They get random rusty ready feathers as well that pop up from time to time. That's one other thing I'm trying to figure out.

Oh i thought it was just the final pinion! Well that plus that 3 of her offspring are somehow not barred color changers... she is definitely carrying something! Is it also her/her chicks that have the rust? Or is that from others? I would think Domino could cause the rust, but I don't know the specifics of that, just that it would match his colors.

 

[NatJ]

The barring gene itself is actually lighter stripes of the dominant color correct? So a dark Grey with barring actually has dark grey/black as the dominant color, with the barring gene overlaid on top, the same with your Domino Roo, his red and black and blue on the wings is overlaid with the barring pattern, so she (you odd all black/blue no barring hen) could have inherited the blue and black parts from them and then a "Stop" Order for the barring, which she would then be a carrier for both the stop order and the barring.

The barring gene makes white stripes across whatever other color the feathers would normally be. I can't tell if that is what you are saying or not.

Since barring is a lack of pigment, to "stop" the barring would mean to have the pigment be produced as normal, instead of interrupted to leave white areas.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Oh i thought it was just the final pinion! Well that plus that 3 of her offspring are somehow not barred color changers... she is definitely carrying something! Is it also her/her chicks that have the rust? Or is that from others? I would think Domino could cause the rust, but I don't know the specifics of that, just that it would match his colors.

She, & her daughter. It comes, & goes. Her daughter is solid black. But not anymore actually. She decided to blend with the snow this year.
Both mother, & daughter are gold based, no leakage on the mother, but her daughter has leakage in her hackles, which is a mahogany color, not rust.
The mother has a random rusty feather on her breast currently. I'll try to get a picture tomorrow.

Here's her daughter last year before winter.

 

[MysteryChicken]

The barring gene makes white stripes across whatever other color the feathers would normally be. I can't tell if that is what you are saying or not.

Since barring is a lack of pigment, to "stop" the barring would mean to have the pigment be produced as normal, instead of interrupted to leave white areas.

I think they meant something else by Stop, but would have to ask to be sure.

 

[Rillowen]

I think they meant something else by Stop, but would have to ask to be sure.

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. The "stop" signal would be ironically suppressing the signal that suppresses the pigments lol. Barring is actually caused by a "stop signal" itself. Its a reaction that causes the normally expressing pigments to either be lessened or supressed entirely in an alternating pattern accross the chicken. (That part is in the article i linked) This would mean that if the barring was present but turned off the dominant colors for the feather region inherited from the parents would present.

Most of the rest of what I said is me applying genetics from other species across though, and is just me spitballing at why you are getting this reaction.

 

[Rillowen]

Yes, that is what I was trying to say. The "stop" signal would be ironically suppressing the signal that suppresses the pigments lol. Barring is actually caused by a "stop signal" itself. Its a reaction that causes the normally expressing pigments to either be lessened or supressed entirely in an alternating pattern accross the chicken. (That part is in the article i linked) This would mean that if the barring was present but turned off the dominant colors for the feather region inherited from the parents would present.

Most of the rest of what I said is me applying genetics from other species across though, and is just me spitballing at why you are getting this reaction.

It could also be that since the barring results from various mutations working together (that article) your original cuckoo EE has some sort of other mutation that is interfering, or possibly extreme altering the gene.
Introducing the fact that her daughter changed to a lighter color for winter brings up some VERY interesting thoughts. Was this the first year she did that? How old was she this winter? Many species change fur/feather color to a lighter shade in winter. In general a mutation doesn't introduce New information, just alters or reveals old or allows new combinations of what was already there. So if she is changing color for winter it seems very possible an ancient coloring that had previously been over ridden by more dominant genes was unlocked! Which makes me very excited.

 

[NatJ]

The evolution of Sex-linked barring alleles in chickens involves both regulatory and coding changes in CDKN2A - PMC https://share.google/95Befv1zgPkzXRESj

This article suggests it's due to a full 4 genes, so potentially just one being "turned off" or "fixed" could result in no barring. (Although I should probably read it through all the way, just trying to guve you new sources of info). Since the original Cuckoo EE had the white wing tips it's possible she already had something like this going on.

I read at least the first part of the article.

It looks like the "four mutations" are all in one small bit of the Z chromsome, and various combinations of them make three different barring alleles. So there are actually 4 alleles at that locus: the original non-mutated form, and three forms of barring.

A quote:
"Sex-linked barring is a fascinating plumage pattern in chickens recently shown to be associated with two non-coding and two missense mutations affecting the ARF transcript at the CDKN2A tumor suppressor locus. It however remained a mystery whether all four mutations are indeed causative and how they contribute to the barring phenotype. Here, we show that Sex-linked barring is genetically heterogeneous, and that the mutations form three functionally different variant alleles. The B0 allele carries only the two non-coding changes and is associated with the most dilute barring pattern, whereas the B1 and B2 alleles carry both the two non-coding changes and one each of the two missense mutations causing the Sex-linked barring and Sex-linked dilution phenotypes, respectively."
From here:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5384658/
In case the link goes dead in the future, it's titled
"The evolution of Sex-linked barring alleles in chickens involves both regulatory and coding changes in CDKN2A"
It was published in 2017
The listed authors are:
Doreen Schwochow Thalmann, Henrik Ring, Elisabeth Sundström, Xiaofang Cao, Mårten Larsson, Susanne Kerje, Andrey Höglund, Jesper Fogelholm, Dominic Wright, Per Jemth, Finn Hallböök, Bertrand Bed’Hom, Ben Dorshorst, Michèle Tixier-Boichard, Leif Andersson