Blood in egg, blood in poop, strange walk

[Mayalys]

This Grubbly one is a LAYER type feed.
What type is the Dumor feed? A link to it?


You mentioned mealworms...do you feed those often?
Kitchen scraps? Eggs? Scratch?

Dumor layer feed is a standard layer feed: https://www.tractorsupply.com/tsc/product/tractor-supply-dumor-16-layer-pellet-50-lb-3006319-206 . The Grubbly is a layer feed also, but since it is seeds the hens engage in selective eating of their favorites, which is why I give it as a snack.

I was giving a handful of dried soldier fly larvae in bad weather (very hot or stormy), when they don't range much. On occasion in cold weather they get a small amount of sunflower seeds, and sometimes a couple of blueberries (or one grape for 4 chickens). No kitchen scraps, eggs or scratch. I did have somebody (that has their own chickens) watching them for about 6 weeks over the summer and was told they barely touched layer pellets and didn't seem to eat cracked corn at all. They do tend to eat crumbles. But mostly they just dig around the whole day for worms and eat lots of grass. I once saw one swallow a baby snake like a noodle.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

She was a good layer until she started having soft shelled eggs two months ago and has layed erratically since, an occasional good egg but a lot of fairy eggs, shell-less eggs, and soft shelled eggs which broke inside. Two days ago she laid a seemingly good egg that turned out to be full of blood and with a grape sized meat spot/clot inside (we don't have a rooster). She seemed egg bound after and got out a shell-less egg that night whose insides look ok, after which she appeared recovered. Today she tried to lay but there is no egg and she is walking like she might be egg-bound, but still ate some meal worms. Then I found this poop, with more blood and a blood clot, and some weird textured stuff that looks like curdled egg. She's now wandering outside eating grass, so I'm getting all kinds of mixed messages here.

For the moment, she is still well enough to be doing the head hen duties, so I will wait for her to let me know when it's time.

Look at the photos in Post #1 of this thread -does it look similar to the grape sized clot you saw?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-out-of-old-english-game-bantam-hen.1321148/

Here's another one.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ood-ball-inside-soft-shelled-egg-pic.1324813/

 

[Mayalys]

Look at the photos in Post #1 of this thread -does it look similar to the grape sized clot you saw?
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...e-out-of-old-english-game-bantam-hen.1321148/

Here's another one.
https://www.backyardchickens.com/th...ood-ball-inside-soft-shelled-egg-pic.1324813/

Thank you! It looked very similar to the one in the first picture (basically like a giant, oddly spherical meat spot of about that size). But there was an yolk in the egg also. I wish I would have tried to dissect it, but my daughter was walking in and I had to dispose of the egg quickly before she refused to crack another egg ever. The poop did in retrospect look like intestinal lining, just lots of it, with some extra weird creamy bits. So maybe there are several issues at play, especially considering that the egg after the bloody one probably broke inside since there was a second little pile of egg white away from the eggy membrane. The hen seems normal today (or as much as possible with this cold spell) and the poop in the coop was good, so I guess it's wait and see. Although I'm considering worming for capillary worms, since I've recalled some repeatedly shed intestinal lining, a much smaller amount, from the same hen last fall which disappeared after I wormed all the hens for gapeworm (another hen was gaping, fixed after deworming as well). I figure it's worth a try in a couple of days when the weather warms up, although with these Isas I don't expect anything to be that easy at this age.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

Thank you! It looked very similar to the one in the first picture (basically like a giant, oddly spherical meat spot of about that size). But there was an yolk in the egg also. I wish I would have tried to dissect it, but my daughter was walking in and I had to dispose of the egg quickly before she refused to crack another egg ever. The poop did in retrospect look like intestinal lining, just lots of it, with some extra weird creamy bits. So maybe there are several issues at play, especially considering that the egg after the bloody one probably broke inside since there was a second little pile of egg white away from the eggy membrane. The hen seems normal today (or as much as possible with this cold spell) and the poop in the coop was good, so I guess it's wait and see. Although I'm considering worming for capillary worms, since I've recalled some repeatedly shed intestinal lining, a much smaller amount, from the same hen last fall which disappeared after I wormed all the hens for gapeworm (another hen was gaping, fixed after deworming as well). I figure it's worth a try in a couple of days when the weather warms up, although with these Isas I don't expect anything to be that easy at this age.

It may be a good idea to treat for worms if you haven't lately.

Safeguard is good to use if they are not molting. If in molt, then use Valbazen instead.

The weird creamy bits are a concern, I have to wonder if it's some pus or who knows really, hard to tell in the photo.

I'd keep an eye on her and see how she gets along.

 

[Mayalys]

It may be a good idea to treat for worms if you haven't lately.

Safeguard is good to use if they are not molting. If in molt, then use Valbazen instead.

The weird creamy bits are a concern, I have to wonder if it's some pus or who knows really, hard to tell in the photo.

I'd keep an eye on her and see how she gets along.

Forgot about the molting and safeguard, so I gave them some this morning since it was warmer and they looked ok. However, it may not matter. Afterwards she went to the coop and stayed there for a long time without laying anything, and came out looking stiff and unwell. She emptied her crop overnight and she ate a bit after, so I don't actually think there is an egg on the pipeline, but an infection of some sort. Would giving amoxicillin again help, or it is unlikely if it didn't look like it worked a month ago? I have 3 and a half days left of that batch. I only can get fish antibiotics, and probably even those won't arrive on time due to Thanksgiving. But I'm wondering if Aqua-Ceph or Aqua-Cipro or Aqua-Zole might have a better chance. I don't even know if I should try harder though. I fought a lot for the previous hen that died, and I only extended her life by 3 months.

 

[WingsysRoost]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

If the amoxicillian didn't work previously, my best guess is that it likely won't work if given a second time. I'm not a vet, though.

I also wonder if she might have some kind of cancer. Some of the symptoms you're describing sound very similar to one of my past chickens. I apologize if you've mentioned this before and I missed it, but how is her weight and her comb/face color? My chicken dropped a lot of weight and constantly looked pale alongside the stiff walk.

 

[Mayalys]

I'm so sorry you're dealing with this.

If the amoxicillian didn't work previously, my best guess is that it likely won't work if given a second time. I'm not a vet, though.

I also wonder if she might have some kind of cancer. Some of the symptoms you're describing sound very similar to one of my past chickens. I apologize if you've mentioned this before and I missed it, but how is her weight and her comb/face color? My chicken dropped a lot of weight and constantly looked pale alongside the stiff walk.

Short of very wonky laying, she seemed fine until 3 days ago, good weight, good movement, crest perhaps a bit pale and but not a lot more than the other ones. Extremely ratty feathers though, more so than ordinarily before molt, and large meat spots even in the good eggs. I ordered Aqua-Cipro since it seemed closest to Baytril, but I suspect she will be gone by the time it arrives. Her attempts to lay concern me the most, and she moves so slowly.

Thank you for the commiseration. I wonder if there is a counselling service for chicken owners -- I've never felt so clueless and helpless in my life before. Chickens are definitely not like cats or dogs. The vet told me straight out with the previous chicken that by the time people take chickens to him, it is too late, so I won't put this chicken trough the vet trauma, but just letting nature be is so painful. My daughter is still crying when anything reminds her of the other chicken, so this will be bad.

 

[Gigi1983]

Hey, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I had the same heartbreak with my ex-battery ladies and despite all the vet trips and love and care that went into each one of them when they got sick I couldn't save them. It doesn't sound good but I would try the wormer and new antibiotic to give her a chance. Is there any chance you could implant her? Although you'd be wary of implanting her if her health isn't great but it may be the only chance she has.

 

[Mayalys]

Hey, I am so sorry you are dealing with this. I had the same heartbreak with my ex-battery ladies and despite all the vet trips and love and care that went into each one of them when they got sick I couldn't save them. It doesn't sound good but I would try the wormer and new antibiotic to give her a chance. Is there any chance you could implant her? Although you'd be wary of implanting her if her health isn't great but it may be the only chance she has.

I'm so sorry you had to go through that; it really is heartbreaking. When the previous one got sick and I found out that this breed's issues are due to too much egg laying, I asked about the possibility of pausing the laying for the others and found out implants are illegal in US for poultry (vets do it for parrots). The vet said they are expensive, don't work reliably in chickens and can last as little as 3 months. Told him a 3 month break would have really extended their lifespan, and it would have cost less than an "exotic pet" visit, x-rays and antibiotics. He was a bit shocked at that, but he couldn't contradict me. I would have tried an implant if it was an option.

The hen looked better after two days of Safeguard, but then took a rapid turn for the worse and her poop was runny white. She looked like she was dying, so I took a chance on the amoxicillin since the cipro didn't yet arrive, and I was lucky that it worked and she started recovering right away. She eventually released what looked like congealed pus and a lash pebble. I think this was an infection from the egg that broke inside her, but there is nothing to do about the underlying issue. She has a slightly gaping vent when she did not before (the hen that died had a very gaping vent due to severe internal swelling, and strong vet antibiotics had no effect, so I'm inclining not to torture her with the cipro). While she seems mostly recovered and her appetite is excellent, she really assesses the distance to perch before jumping and is a bit unstable on it. The other sick hen did the same, I'm guessing due to the internal swelling. Right now the hen went into a serious molt, trailing feathers everywhere, so that should buy her a bit of time, especially if the weather stays on the warmer side for the season. At least the Valbazen was not in the package that is lost somewhere in the mail system, so I'll be able to do the second deworming with it. I'm trying to let what I can do be enough, and some days it's working better than others.

 

[Gigi1983]

I'm so sorry you had to go through that; it really is heartbreaking. When the previous one got sick and I found out that this breed's issues are due to too much egg laying, I asked about the possibility of pausing the laying for the others and found out implants are illegal in US for poultry (vets do it for parrots). The vet said they are expensive, don't work reliably in chickens and can last as little as 3 months. Told him a 3 month break would have really extended their lifespan, and it would have cost less than an "exotic pet" visit, x-rays and antibiotics. He was a bit shocked at that, but he couldn't contradict me. I would have tried an implant if it was an option.

The hen looked better after two days of Safeguard, but then took a rapid turn for the worse and her poop was runny white. She looked like she was dying, so I took a chance on the amoxicillin since the cipro didn't yet arrive, and I was lucky that it worked and she started recovering right away. She eventually released what looked like congealed pus and a lash pebble. I think this was an infection from the egg that broke inside her, but there is nothing to do about the underlying issue. She has a slightly gaping vent when she did not before (the hen that died had a very gaping vent due to severe internal swelling, and strong vet antibiotics had no effect, so I'm inclining not to torture her with the cipro). While she seems mostly recovered and her appetite is excellent, she really assesses the distance to perch before jumping and is a bit unstable on it. The other sick hen did the same, I'm guessing due to the internal swelling. Right now the hen went into a serious molt, trailing feathers everywhere, so that should buy her a bit of time, especially if the weather stays on the warmer side for the season. At least the Valbazen was not in the package that is lost somewhere in the mail system, so I'll be able to do the second deworming with it. I'm trying to let what I can do be enough, and some days it's working better than others.

I would insist on the implant if he is in any way open to the idea of giving her one. MSM is a natural sulphur that can be bought online and is unbelievable for bringing down inflammation. It has outperformed corticosteroids such as Predisnone in combating swelling from arthritis. I can personally vouch for it, as I had to use it myself for gross swelling when steroids could no longer be used due to bone density issues from prolonged use of Dexamethasone. If you can get 750mg or 1000 mg capsules and give her 1/4 of a capsule 3 times daily. This is a safe dose for hens and after a few days will work wonders on the inflammation. One of mine had Salpingitis and got a lash egg stuck pretty far back. At first when I put my hand up her vent I couldn't get it entirely around the egg. 3-4 days after starting MSM treatment I could get my hand fully around it, it was like it had shrunk. The stuff is unbelievable and a huge benefit is you won't need to go through the vet to get it, plus it doesn't come with the awful side effects of meds. A combination of Amoxicillin with Clavulanic Acid (250 mg tablet combo-200mg Amox/50mg CA) is one of the best antibiotics for combatting EYP, Salpingitis, etc. If you can get her implanted and put her on the above antibiotics plus the MSM she has a chance.