Blue Crele?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by Dipsy Doodle Doo, Oct 11, 2008.

  1. Hi!
    Is there such a color --- blue Crele?
    Could I make them by using a blue Cuckoo and a black breasted red (actually it would be BBR male over blue cuckoo female.

    I can imagine what the cock would look like, but what would the blue crele hen look like?

    Thanks!
    [​IMG]
    Lisa
     
  2. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Yes. Blue can be introduced into any color/pattern. How they will look- the barring in particular, will vary.

    Blue cuckoo is a black based bird.. black is dominant so expect cuckoos and solids(blacks or blues) in the first cross. Use the cross birds with both blue and barring over a BBR bird and you will hit on some blue creles.

    Barring tends to be poorly discernible on hens that aren't black based- just barely visible on the hackles, tail, or the tail may simply look paler than normal. So the hens are likely to look like typical blue BBR, except lighter overall(the effect of the barring getting 'washed over' the feathers).
     
  3. Hi Kev! Thanks!
    I'm not even sure any of these would be considered black-breasted red --- the guy on the left I think would be closest, maybe?
    They are from a brownish hen that layed a sky blue egg crossed with a clean-faced tailed Araucana (he was black with a lot of red in hackle/saddle). All of those eggs hatched and 13 of them are boys.
    [​IMG]

    They are about big enough to go in the freezer, but I might save out one if I could mate him with my blue and black cuckoo green-egger hens and get crele and blue crele green-eggers.

    Would that first generation work the same as with other barring? Cuckoo / barred males and no bars on the females?

    [​IMG]
    Lisa
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2008
  4. flyingmonkeypoop

    flyingmonkeypoop Overrun With Chickens

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    The cross you want to make would give you a sexlink, it would look like a black star. You should get some barred males, they may or may not be blue barred and some red may leak through in the saddle, hackle, and wing bows. The females will be like normal black stars, some may be blue. The rooster on the left has the better BBR coloring in my opinion.
     
  5. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Lisa,

    That's such an awesome looking nest! And please stop showing pictures of barred birds of that type.. there's just something so appealing about those birds.. Idonotneedmorechickens! LOL!

    Now about those roosters, the two on left look like they are more likely either leaky blacks(like monkey says about black stars) or gold base birchens(like 'black copper' marans are). Not sure about the left side rooster.. the true signs of a BBR bird is having a classic chimpunk pattern down as a chick- with unbroken and even stripes down the back and on head also. BBR roosters have a clear "duckwing" patch on the secondaries(hence their other name- red duckwings). He's still molting or not showing the wing well so I can't tell if he has a duckwing spot or not. He does have a lot of gold leaking on his breast and his color doesn't look quite right for a BBR, which makes me think he may not be a 'true BBR', instead being either again a leaky black or a gold birchen. In any case you know all of them are BBR carriers because of their mother. Both black and birchen are dominant over BBR btw.

    They still could be 'usable' if you don't have either a wheaten or BBR rooster available now.. if you breed any of those to these hens, save any chicks that show any striping on their down but still save what you can raise and select out sons that show a lot of leakiness, hoping they are the ones not pure for black and breed them to a BBR hen

    If you use a wheaten rooster, be sure you realize that the roosters can look Crele however the hens will look very different than a 'true crele' hen. If your goal was a Crele rooster then a wheaten will be quite fine to use.

    The mating will still be sexlinked. It does not matter if the hens were pure or mixed, as long as they exhibit the sex linked trait and are bred with a rooster lacking the trait. Using any of those roosters with those barred hens will be 100% sex linked mating.

    A thought: if no BBR or wheatens are available.. breed one of those back to the mother to get BBR type chicks? If you would have liked blue eggers, that may also improve chances of getting blue eggers out of that. The BBR daughters could be useful for mating with sons out of the barred hens. Decent chance of hitting on blue eggers amongst green eggers too, maybe.
     
  6. Thanks Michael and Kev!
    I get it (I think).

    .. the true signs of a BBR bird is having a classic chimpunk pattern down as a chick- with unbroken and even stripes down the back and on head also.

    Ah ha! All those chicks hatched with black down. The boys got redder and redder as they feathered out and grew up. The girl chicks stayed black, but had a purple sheen.

    BBR roosters have a clear "duckwing" patch on the secondaries (hence their other name- red duckwings).

    None of those boys have a 'duckwing' patch (and I appreciate that bit --- 'what makes a duckwing a duckwing' has had me confused for a while).

    BUT I could mate the roo on the left with a Cuckoo hen to make 'crele-ish' looking rooster-chicks.

    I'm confused whether the hens would be brownish / tan or black.
    I'm thinking black now, and not brown / tan.

    [​IMG] Wasn't that a pretty nest? That brown hen was jumping out of her pen and making nests all over the garden. She finally hid that one behind the wood pile and the eggs were about half-developed when I found it.
    I was pretty sure the only roo that had mated her was the black Araucana so I figured ok, they'll just be more blue/green eggers for the laying flock. Ha! I wasn't counting on 13 of the 16 being boys!

    The bearded Cuckoo birds are my new favorites.

    Thanks again,
    [​IMG]
    Lisa​
     
  7. Kev

    Kev Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Ah ha! All those chicks hatched with black down. The boys got redder and redder as they feathered out and grew up. The girl chicks stayed black, but had a purple sheen.

    BUT I could mate the roo on the left with a Cuckoo hen to make 'crele-ish' looking rooster-chicks.

    I'm confused whether the hens would be brownish / tan or black.
    I'm thinking black now, and not brown / tan.

    If the hens were from black/blue parents, I would say that most likely any of those roosters and the barred hens would throw all black/blue chicks, with at least half of the roosters turning out like their fathers(colored hackles/saddles). Hens would either be solid colored or black with leaking on hackles and "lacing" breast(like black star hens). I wouldn't really expect any non-black chicks, unless the hens were also out of a black x "brown" cross.

    What the color the leaks will be depends on whether the hens have silver or not. If the hens have silver, then all the leaky areas on the roosters will be white, not red.. and look more like some cuckoo Marans lines where the roosters seem to have too much white on their hackles and saddles.
     
  8. Thanks!
    I'll try the cross with the blue Cuckoo hen and see if any crele-ish boys pop out. I was really hoping to avoid hatching brown/tan hens. Blue/black is good.

    What the color the leaks will be depends on whether the hens have silver or not. If the hens have silver, then all the leaky areas on the roosters will be white, not red.. and look more like some cuckoo Marans lines where the roosters seem to have too much white on their hackles and saddles.

    Or maybe I won't. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like a bad idea.
    I bet the hens do have silver and the cross would be a disappointment. Thanks for the help.
    [​IMG]
    Lisa​
     
  9. tadkerson

    tadkerson Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Here is my first generation barred rhode island red. He is the product of two crosses. Eventually I will have a black tailed red bird that is sex linked barred white.

    [​IMG]

    Tim
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008

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