Blue Egg Layers from University of Arkansas

[nicalandia]

lets stay on topic witch is the blue egg layers

I think we are doing just that, someone asked for info on sex linked dermal inhibitor(wildtype form found on blue egg layers) which is related to this porject and they get the answer

 

[banjoejoe4783]

what will you see?

this is staying on topic ????

 

[nicalandia]

this is staying on topic ????

was an honest question, guys just ask I´ll be lurking around here, there is no such a thing as a dumb question

 

[banjoejoe4783]

having worked with production type white leghorns(not from hatcheries but directly from the battery cages) I could answer some questions...

second question: there is only afew documented recessive traits found so far on the white leghorns, some white leghorns do carry recessive white, but the white bird that was hatch can also be obtain by homozygous blue (Splash), mottled birds can also be expected but hey blue mottle is cool too right? all of the other recessive mutations that results in the dilution of melanins(black feathers) that have been already documented like recessive gray, lavender, pink eye, Erminette, partial feather achromatosis, recessive chocolate have NOT been found on production type white leghorns so far and were originally found on other breeds(R.D Crawford PB/G)


third: these birds are mostly leghorn at this stage(does not take too long to get back at that stage) and their leghorn blood is not just any other leghorn you can find on even on the best backyard breeders that keep good egg laying records, heck not even hatchery type leghorns lay as much as the battery type leghorns, these birds are able to lay 300+ eggs but with the right settings, meaning if you wont give them 16+ of artificial day light, just dont expect them to break the 300 egg mark, but they will out lay anything you could possibly imagine

forth: you can also expect to hatch a single combed wyandotte from time to time, just cull them, thats all

fith: yellow shanks are NOT recessive to slate shanks, its the other way around, they are dominant, if you are hatching chicks with yellow shanks(clear shanks) its because the breeder is doing this on purpose, yellow shanked birds should be culled on the spot, or use only on grand parent lines(slate shank blue egg layer cross with a heterozygous yellow shank blue egg layer will yield 50% slate colored shank birds and 50% yellow shank colored birds) and only slate colored parents must be used on parent lines(birds that will lay the hatching eggs people will get on the mail)


thats it...

ok are you still saying this ???????

Here are some facts.

White skin, (W) is dominant to yellow skin (w) in all cases (Genetics of the Fowl, pg 151, Hutt, 1949).
Shades of color in the shanks are due to a combination of the melanin in the varying dermal layers of the skin.

1) White shanks= white skin (W) with no melanin in the epidermal layer of the shanks.
2) Yellow shanks= yellow skin (w) with no melanin in the epidermal layer of the shanks.
3) Bluish= White skinned bird (W) not obscured by melanin in the epidermis but influenced by its presence.
4) Slate or Black= in white skinned (W) birds, when partially or wholly obscured by the epidermal melanin.
5) Willow, or Green= in yellow skinned (w) birds, from the mixture of dermal melanin and epidermal xanthophyl.

The various shading and degree of shading of the slate or willow color will depend upon the level of melanin in one or all of the three dermal layers of the skin. But the facts are , the basil white skin (W) is dominant to yellow skin (w).

References:
Genetics of the Fowl, E. B. Hutt, Chapter 6, Variations in the Color of the Skin, pg 149-161, 1949

clearly slate-black legs = white skin witch is donanat wille yelow leg = yelow skin whitch is resesive

the blue egg layers i have i have both slate legs, wilow legs,and yelow legs , and as i said bofore yelow legs are ressive so we can expect to hatch more yelow leged chicks as well as willow and slate

 

[nicalandia]

as i said bofore yelow legs are ressive so we can expect to hatch more yelow leged chicks as well as willow and slate

let me help you out, "Clear yellow/white shanks" are dominant over dark Slate/Willow shanks,


yellow skin is recessive to white skin that is a fact, but we are not talking about skin color here, right? but we are talking about dark willow/slate colored shanks right?

lets imagine(virtual world) that the blue egg layer in the future will have dark willow shanks instead of slate shanks but clear yellow shanks are a DQ aswell as clear white shanks(white skin will be a DQ in this virtual scenario)

what happens if you cross a clear yellow shanked rooster to a dark willow shanked hen(both brids will be from the Blue egger project), guess what happens? all of the hens(w Id/-) will have clear yellow shanks, and ALL fo the boys will also have clear yellow shanks, is that what the blue egg layer project wants? no.... the blue egg layer project wants dark willow shanks

 

[banjoejoe4783]

let me help you out, "Clear yellow/white shanks" are dominant over dark Slate/Willow shanks,


yellow skin is recessive to white skin that is a fact, but we are not talking about skin color here, right? but we are talking about dark willow/slate colored shanks right?

lets imagine(virtual world) that the blue egg layer in the future will have dark willow shanks instead of slate shanks but clear yellow shanks are a DQ aswell as clear white shanks(white skin will be a DQ in this virtual scenario)

what happens if you cross a clear yellow shanked rooster to a dark willow shanked hen(both brids will be from the Blue egger project), guess what happens? all of the hens(w Id/-) will have clear yellow shanks, and ALL fo the boys will also have clear yellow shanks, is that what the blue egg layer project wants? no.... the blue egg layer project wants dark willow shanks

yelow and white are not the same thing white shanks are donantat wile yelow shanks are ressive
so let me help you out you are confusizing white/clear legs with yellow and just an FYI skin color is leg color

white skin bird = white shanks or blue shanks or slate shanks but a white skined bird will not have yelow shanks

yelow skin bird = yellow shanks or willow shanks but a yellow skin bird will not have white shanks

 

[nicalandia]

yelow and white are not the same thing white shanks are donantat wile yelow shanks are ressive
so let me help you out you are confusizing white/clear legs with yellow and just an FYI skin color is leg color

white skin bird = white shanks or blue shanks or slate shanks but a white skined bird will not have yelow shanks

yelow skin bird = yellow shanks or willow shanks but a yellow skin bird will not have white shanks

that much is true my friend(except the bolded part, I thought we had cleared that up before)....

lets clear the whole Skin color is leg color

you can have a black bird with yellow skin(recessive ofcourse) but with black shanks(example Black Jersey Giants), and you can also have a black bird with a white skin but with black shanks also(example Black Australorp), now if you have both birds and they are of the same size and weight, how can you tell which one is which? easy, just check their under feet(sole) the one with yellow sole has the yellow skin

for educational purposes here is a thread on how to identify these seemingly identical birds(black with black shanks yet different skin color, both breeds having dermal/epidermal enhancing genes) https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/...fference-between-black-giants-and-australorps


as you can see a yellow skin colored bird can also have black shanks, meaning it can develop dermal/epidermal pigmentation on shanks due to other genes that inhibit(sex linked Dermal melanin, Dominant white and splash, many other genes out there but will keep this a simple as possible)

with that in mind(different skin color, same shank color) lets use two more similar birds, this time both of them will have dominant white skin and will be based on wild type back ground(gold duckwing) the only difference will be that one of the seemingly identical bird will have dominant sex linked dermal inhibitor(restricting any and all dermal pigments on the shanks) and the other will lack that dominant gene and have its wild counter part instead(id+)

below bird has dominant white skin and dominant sex linked dermal inhibitor(restricting any and all dermal pigment on shanks)
below bird is an Black Breasted Red OEGB


now to the next bird, this bird is almost identical on genes(white skin, wild type background) but its lacking the dominant sex linked dermal inhibitor, and has its wild type counter part(id+ also sex linked but recessive)

below bird is "the" original chicken, its the Red Jungle Fowl






how is this possible? two birds with same skin color but different shank color? well thats because there are other genes at play when it comes to shank color, in this case the only gene making the difference is dominant sex linked dermal inhibitor(Id/Id)



so you are right, yellow skin is recessive to white skin, but clear yellow shanks are dominant over dark willow colored shanks...

I hope we are on the same page now

 

[Henk69]

If you cross yellow shanks with slate shanks, neither is dominant. You get white shanks *.
The gene for clear shanks (Id, sexlinked) is present in yellow shanks and in white shanks and is dominant to dark shanks (id+).
Willow shanks is the combination of yellow shanks w/w and dark shanks id+/(id+)

*=can be yellow in young chicks up to a few weeks. Don't cull too early...

 

[nicalandia]

*=can be yellow in young chicks up to a few weeks. Don't cull too early...

oh I forgot about that henk, thanks,

 

[HallFamilyFarm]

lets stay on topic witch is the blue egg layers

Agreed!

clearly slate-black legs = white skin witch is donanat wille yelow leg = yelow skin whitch is resesive

the blue egg layers i have i have both slate legs, wilow legs,and yelow legs , and as i said bofore yelow legs are ressive so we can expect to hatch more yelow leged chicks as well as willow and slate

I know we have slate and yellow shanks. Not sure on the willow. Will go this morning and look closer.

I also believe that there are numerous hidden traits/genes in the Parent line of the commercial industry. We may find all sorts of new issues (color etc) in future generations. Dr. Kieth Bramwell stated to heritagehabitatfarm that their are all sorts of hidden genes in these commercial lines, all hiding under the white.

If I recall Dr. Bramwell spoke about the process of choosing the commercial breeders at the Incubation Seminar. You can watch the Incubation Seminar at https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/656836/january-incubation-seminar-meetup-video
He does not exactly address these Arkansas Blue, but does talk some about the scaleless and blue egg genes.

For this season we are ignoring the shank color. We will cull for type, color and comb. Type being what the first photo looked like. Color being the BBS. Comb being a pea comb. Next generation we will cull for shank color, after the few breeders who has these agree on shank color.

Speaking of few breeders.... The following have at least a pair of these.

HallFamilyFarm

banjoejoe4783

caj1985

OSUman

Elias also discovered a breeder of these in north central Arkansas. One of her extra cockerels is now at caj1985 farm.

That makes five breeders. That is enough to work towards a Standard. Even if application for admittance is 10 years away.