Blue Orpington

[tazcat70]

Hello,

Ok I, like alot of other people, LOVE the blue Orpingtons.

I am hoping to get some someday.

I know that Speckledhen, Julie, Sandhill, Catalpa, and now Ewesheep have them for sale.

How close are all these flocks in terms of genetics? I am not sure if I am saying it correctly.

I mean diversity, while still trying for the breed standard. Clear as mud?

Thanks,
Tonya

edited for grammatical errors

 

[MissPrissy]

I wonder this same thing myself.

 

[speckledhen]

You mean are they related to each other? Perhaps some of the birds are distantly related in some cases. I got Suede and Velvet from one person, but Skye came from another person in a different state. Although both got some of their flock started from Sandhill Preservation at one point, they were probably years apart. And not all the original person's stock came from Sandhill. The problem is with this variety, and it really isn't a problem, per se, is that there will be some related stock across the country because there are so few places to acquire chicks/eggs in the first place. Is that what you wanted to know, or am I off base?

 

[Tuffoldhen]

Nope...

...I don't understand the question...you mean are the people you have listed are their birds close to the Standard?....or are all ours related?...See, told ya I didn't understand the question

maybe I'll edit for blue orp for dummies....

See...I was thinking along Cyn lines too...

 

[Julie in Al]

AS far as my Orps go. I have 6 from Sandhill, Two blues from another source. Then my younger Black and one blue and Mottled are all from a breeder in Fl who got theirs from a man going out of buisness of exhibition Orps due to health. I will line breed some but will keep records. No siblings to siblings. I have three Roos I will be using to vary the colors. All will be breed to unrelated chickens.

 

[tazcat70]

Yes, what Cyn said!

I know that sometimes in breeding that the lines are bred back so frequently that it can cause problems. Such as in 1/4 horses HYPP impressive line. Certain bad genetics are likely to come out.

Cyn, If I order eggs from you then before I get other eggs, for diversity of flock, I should ask if they got theirs from you too.


Julie, what you are saying is that you will not breed brother and sister. But will take them and breed to other rooster or hen from different direct parents.

ie:
black roo 1 X splash hen 1 = offspring 1
blue roo 2 x blue hen 2 = offspring 2
offspring 1 x offspring 2 = offspring 3

Offspring 3 which can then be bred back to orginal 1 and 2.

Is that what you mean?

Tonya

 

[speckledhen]

Tonya, I got my first eggs from Julie-Suede is the son of her Blue Boy and one of the hens. I got my second batch of eggs from Jim Cox in W. VA who sells on Ebay, but a member picked them up for me. Both he and Julie got some of their original stock from Sandhill, but as Julie said, also from other places. In almost every line of breeder or show quality birds, there is some inbreeding, to a degree. There was a huge discussion on another forum about breeding brother to sister not necessarily being a terrible thing as long as you don't continue to do it from generation to generation-you must get new blood in your lines in a few years to avoid problems. Even though perhaps Suede (from Julie) and Skye (from Jim Cox) were descended from Sandhill stock somewhere way back, that doesn't mean that they came from the exact same line of Blue Orpingtons-I'm sure Sandhill has more than one line going, if you know what I mean.

 

[Tuffoldhen]

Okay..Thats what I thought you were asking but not positive...

Like my trio of 1 year olds I got from a gal in the southern part of the state...I have a young cockeral, 4 pullets from Julie, a pullet from Indiana and a pullet from VA.....so my breeders will not be brothers and sisters too...somewhere down the road I'm sure they will and thats when I'll get new breeder stock in....

Yep to what Cyn is telling you.....

 

[EweSheep]

I dont see this as a problem with breeding our Orpingtons with all the others you mentioned earlier....like Speckledhen said earlier, they probably all related at a distance but not a problem. Those kind of lines works well with Arabians and Paso Fino genetics since most of the horse's pedigree may have a common ancestor that works well and pass on better traits. However ugly genetics can pop up. With these lines we have going right now, I dont see any problems at all and therefore, I am not worried about it.

The 14 Blue Orp chicks mostly pullets are all from one breeder who said these chicks are third generation from the original flock by Catalupa.

The 2 Blue Orp hens are from the same breeder above, are second generation from the original flock from Catalupa's stock.

The one Blue Orp roo was hatched by Gordie which he bought a doz from Tommy Stanley just before Tommy passed away...not sure where Tommy got his birds or original flock from.

Two Orp chicks, one blue and one black, are from J. Cox, WV, half sibling to Speckledhen's Velvet??

One black orp pullet, breeder was a judge down in Shelbyville, IL, who bought alot of Catalupa Farms Black Orps and occassionally showed those birds too. I got this pretty gal from Chicows who bought hatching eggs from him.

My Blue Rock pullet, hatched out of Gordie's stock...she is half Blue Orp, half White Rock cross in her second generation which were crossbreds and her parents were Blue Rock crosses. I am expected to breed her to Blue Orps to get 3/4 Blue Orp crosses out of her...she looks too much like an Orp than a Rock.

I am still planning on getting some hatching eggs out of Julie and Speckledhen and they definately will be used in my next generation of Blue Orps and other colors. You can cross the Black Orps from tiem to time into the Blue Orps so there is no reason you could not do that and it would help the color too when you are getting too many pale blues.

You can breed the offsprings back to father OR mother but never sis or brother. And from that cross, you can use the other offspring from a different parent like different father but same momma, you can do that as well. I am sure in that magazine from Backyard Poultry, there was an article that most breeders follow that and outcross by the fourth or fifth generation then you need a new blood.

I dont know about Sandhill but I am sure they would rotate their stock often to keep the blood "fresh" and not have all kinds of genetic problems.

So no fear, my dear, get all the eggs you want from all of us and you would have a diversity of lines to choose from and cull those that dont fit your needs or expectations. Like bad disposition, cull those out.

 

[EweSheep]

OFF TOPIC here:

Tazcat, I definately remember the HYPP Impressive QH bad gene, when I was a student at BHE, there was one girl who had a sorrel mare from those lines....oh my God, we all didnt know whats wrong with the mare and talk about the hours, money and suffering this poor mare had to suffer. She was doing so well in her basic training and all of sudden her body just went haywire and went downhill in a short time. After so many tests done on her even after her death, it was due to HYPP and it was new to us and breeders were scrambling to test every horse on their farm for this dreadful disease. That was in 1984 to 6 when all those QHs were having problems or heard having problems and it spread like wildfire. Makes me wonder what happened to the popularity of Impressive horses went from wonderful, excellent and spiralled down really fast as the "dreaded Impressive" lines and people would think twice about buying any of his descendents. I dont know how HYPP came about but maybe somewhere in Impressive's line may have carried this trait.

Now, I dont hear too much of it in the QH world...been so long out of it!